How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

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MalVeauX
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How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by MalVeauX »

Hi all,

I was just browsing around and fell upon a simple USB dongle for allowing one to connect and receive radio signal to PC via USB with simple inexpensive dongles and some open source software for scanning radio, lots of applications of course, the RTL_SDR stuff if anyone is familiar. I know people use them for listening in on all kinds of stuff. But I noticed it's also useful for radio astronomy. And so that had me thinking about just pointing an antennae at the sun and just listening to our nearest star talk in radio waves.

Anyone listening to our star with their own hardware? Looks like PC/software allows a lot of the analog hardware to be removed from the chain to simplify and make it inexpensive to dabble in radio. Would love to be able to listen to our star, record it, etc. I figure a big signal like that doesn't need a monster antennae. But I am ignorant to all of this. Just seeking ideas on how to start.

Edit: Just to help clarify... looking to see how to basically start and what to look for to build a little PC/software based (SDR) receiver and what sort of system and antenna or dish can be used to get going and the other parts between. Goal being to just point it at the sun and see what it's doing (especially when there are flares happening, etc). Bonus to be able to point it at Jupiter or anything else rich in radio near by. Maybe even just do some hydrogen line experiments in the summer. The big thing would be to be able to build it myself and not just link up to someone else's gear.

Thanks!

Very best,


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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by Montana »

Marty, the BAA have a very good Radio Astronomy section for amateurs. I can't find anything specific to solar but there are lots of videos
https://britastro.org/sections/radio-astronomy
Also this gives the radio frequency you need to find
https://britastro.org/section_informati ... o-spectrum
https://britastro.org/section_informati ... omy-basics
You could always email for more information.

The other expert we know is Thomas Ashcraft in New Mexico http://www.heliotown.com/Radio_Sun_Introduction.html

Alexandra


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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by MalVeauX »

Thanks Alexandra,

It's amazing how limited this is, even just searching on search engines. I found some videos on YouTube. But again very limited stuff. Way more overall radio astronomy using big arrays and just tapping into their signal via internet radio or via a big antenna. Found a few that were showing some solar and of course plenty of Hydrogen line info since that's a popular experiment.

From what I've seen so far, it looks like all I need is:

Software Defined Radio/Receiver via USB dongle and software (inexpensive, $30~40)
Low noise amplifier with a centered frequency ($50~100 depending on quality, etc) to increase weak signal without amplifying noise
Parabolic dish antenna ($60~150 depending on source, new)

Seems like it could be simple to just do the above. But the LNA will be the limiting factor because if I get one centered on hydrogen line it will be quite narrow. But I could also get a more broad spectrum one to explore frequencies more widely.

Just looking to see if there's anything crucial I'm missing.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Some of the stuff I'm looking at:

https://www.rtl-sdr.com/buy-rtl-sdr-dvb-t-dongles/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175218850368?c ... 1&mkcid=28
https://www.amazon.com/Premiertek-Direc ... 8KU3W/ref=

https://www.amazon.com/Nooelec-SAWbird- ... V9RX2/ref=

And then whatever N connectors and cables needed. Looks like this should work maybe. I think the hydrogen line should work for solar since it's got a lot of that lol, and it should have way stronger signal than everywhere else to differentiate it.

Very best,


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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by Montana »

Good luck on your quest and do post sound tracks if you manage to get them. I think I have only ever heard Thomas Ashcraft's recordings of flares. I wonder if you could track him down and email him as he is the best expert we know. He was on here originally but not seen him for a while.

Alexandra


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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Marty,

I think the biggest problem here is the size of the Antenna you need but if I remember well you have a huge field for it.

Next would be the tracking ? of the Sun so the antenna is always pointing on the Sun ... I also wanted to start with that but the antenna is the problem for me. I have no space for it.

Stuart and I are monitoring meteors. I use the famous RTL-SDR and such a set up is quite easy and it runs automatically 24/7 ...

Maybe you star with this and learn about RTL-SDR and then dig deeper into Sun radio monitoring ?

Just an idea ...


regards Rainer

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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by rsfoto »



regards Rainer

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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by rsfoto »



regards Rainer

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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by MalVeauX »

Thanks,

Hrm, that video link to solar noise says its not available.

Got some more info. Maybe I am mostly looking to build a SID receiver? Even more simple? And look for ionization disturbances as a simple way to monitor solar radio?

I do have plenty of space for a big antenna, but I'm not sure I need to go that far, at least, yet.

I've followed yours & Stu's results on meteors, and maybe I will try that after this. It's been very interesting!

For now, I would love to hear/graph the radio signal, possibly just the SID via radio while observing or imaging solar, as a flare happens to correlate them (I realize seeing it and getting the signal of it will not be at the same time). Just for fun.

Very best,


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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Marty,

I searched for SID and found this

https://physicsopenlab.org/2020/05/07/v ... onitoring/

If the important portion are 3 - 30kHz you will not be able to use an SDR dongle ... The SDR dongle goes down to 500 kHz and not less ...

I have a Lightning detector installed and yes that one detects this frequencies which are produced by a Lightning. Unfortunately the waiting list is huge and the delivery time is unknown as this is made by a German Guy from a University ... I am on the waiting list since more then 2 years and nothing happens at all ... and sending him messages is fruitless as he does not answer ...

OK, I do not know if this system could be used for Sun radio waves monitoring. The antenna construction is easy.

Look at the images below. This are the two antennas I use for VLF (Vey Low Frequency) Lightning detection.
NHSA_Loop_Antenna_#1.jpg
NHSA_Loop_Antenna_#1.jpg (358.78 KiB) Viewed 1485 times
NHSA_Loop_Antenna_#1_#2.jpg
NHSA_Loop_Antenna_#1_#2.jpg (845.32 KiB) Viewed 1485 times
My first detection test using my Oscilloscope where successful. I connected one to a homemade amplifier using an operational amplifier and got this sort of signals during a thunderstorm in my area ..

relampago_Nube_Tierra_20210704.jpg
relampago_Nube_Tierra_20210704.jpg (166.11 KiB) Viewed 1485 times

You need to fiddle out what is the size of the antenna in regard to the frequency and build one. It is explained in the page

https://www.blitzortung.org/en/live_lightning_maps.php
https://www.blitzortung.org/en/whats_new.php
https://www.blitzortung.org/en/Compendi ... 1649782000

The next image is a graph of the detection of my 3 antennas ... Look at the magenta line which is the one I detected with my simple amplifier and my Oscilloscope before I was able to get a used System Blue from Canada. Cost about US $ 500.00 ...

Lightning_NHSA.JPG
Lightning_NHSA.JPG (323.63 KiB) Viewed 1485 times
This is a bit of what I have done in VLF = Lightning ...

Maybe built an antenna, point it at the Sun and a simple amplifier connected on an Oscilloscope ¿? or however the signal is detected. No idea at all at the moment.


JUST guessing and maybe Day dreaming.


regards Rainer

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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by MalVeauX »

Thanks,

Very interesting! I will look into this. I'm happy to attempt to build something.

Very best,


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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by rsfoto »



regards Rainer

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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by rsfoto »



regards Rainer

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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by rsfoto »

MalVeauX wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:23 pm Thanks,

Very interesting! I will look into this. I'm happy to attempt to build something.

Very best,
Look at my answer before this message ;)


regards Rainer

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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by rsfoto »



regards Rainer

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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by MalVeauX »

Thanks,

Lots to look into. I saw those Spiders, but that's well out of my price range for getting my toes in the water. I would love one of those big ones though! Great fun I bet. Maybe when I'm retired.

Very best,


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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by rsfoto »



regards Rainer

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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

Post by marktownley »

Cool!


Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!
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Re: How to start in Solar Radio? Radio astronomy in general?

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regards Rainer

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