Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
- Bastelhannes
- Ohhhhhh My!
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:38 am
- Has thanked: 83 times
- Been thanked: 138 times
Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
Hi folks,
I found on a long forgotten shelf an old Daystar T-scanner.
I want to use it for double stacking. But unfortunately it only produces foggy pictures (not to confuse with unfocused).
Therefore I just disassembled it.
(forbidden Oreo cookie)
Some things were interesting:
- inch screws..
- there is a lot of oil around the optical parts
- I thought the ITF could be rusted. Is there a ITF? Which part could create fog?
I found on a long forgotten shelf an old Daystar T-scanner.
I want to use it for double stacking. But unfortunately it only produces foggy pictures (not to confuse with unfocused).
Therefore I just disassembled it.
(forbidden Oreo cookie)
Some things were interesting:
- inch screws..
- there is a lot of oil around the optical parts
- I thought the ITF could be rusted. Is there a ITF? Which part could create fog?
My greatest fear is being married alive.
- Bastelhannes
- Ohhhhhh My!
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:38 am
- Has thanked: 83 times
- Been thanked: 138 times
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
I found some drawings:
Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... XAMINATION
White color shows the FP etalon with dielecrtric mirrors on both sides — the heart of DayStar filters. Yellow — antireflection protective glasses that prevent the stack from external influences.
Pink shows IF with 10 Å passband that blocks the mica etalon adjacent or- ders of interference.
Red — a color glass that, in turn, blocks the wings of the IF transmittance profile thus isolating the required spectrum region.
Green — circular polarizers that have two functions. First, they damp off-band reflections in the stack when those occur be- tween etalon and other filters. Second, since mica has birefringence, which is manifested in occurrence of ad- ditional spectrum maxima, the polarizer damps one of two rays — ordinary or extraordinary.
Purple shows a heat-reflecting filter. This can be a MDM filter (met- al/dielectric/metal), which blocks IR radiation to 4000 nm, transmitting Нα or another wavelength selected.
Looks like something I should not disassemble further...
Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... XAMINATION
White color shows the FP etalon with dielecrtric mirrors on both sides — the heart of DayStar filters. Yellow — antireflection protective glasses that prevent the stack from external influences.
Pink shows IF with 10 Å passband that blocks the mica etalon adjacent or- ders of interference.
Red — a color glass that, in turn, blocks the wings of the IF transmittance profile thus isolating the required spectrum region.
Green — circular polarizers that have two functions. First, they damp off-band reflections in the stack when those occur be- tween etalon and other filters. Second, since mica has birefringence, which is manifested in occurrence of ad- ditional spectrum maxima, the polarizer damps one of two rays — ordinary or extraordinary.
Purple shows a heat-reflecting filter. This can be a MDM filter (met- al/dielectric/metal), which blocks IR radiation to 4000 nm, transmitting Нα or another wavelength selected.
Looks like something I should not disassemble further...
My greatest fear is being married alive.
- marktownley
- Librarian
- Posts: 42550
- Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
- Location: Brierley Hills, UK
- Has thanked: 20819 times
- Been thanked: 10489 times
- Contact:
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
Always nice to see an disassembly thread like this
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!
- Bastelhannes
- Ohhhhhh My!
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:38 am
- Has thanked: 83 times
- Been thanked: 138 times
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
Yes.. but still no clue where the fog is coming from...
My greatest fear is being married alive.
- Bastelhannes
- Ohhhhhh My!
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:38 am
- Has thanked: 83 times
- Been thanked: 138 times
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
Okay...
Threw away the collimation lens of the daystar and replaced it by a 3x telecentric barlow from Explorer Scientific (MEADE). Now the image is crystal clear, but very very dim...
Sigh.. long way to go
Threw away the collimation lens of the daystar and replaced it by a 3x telecentric barlow from Explorer Scientific (MEADE). Now the image is crystal clear, but very very dim...
Sigh.. long way to go
My greatest fear is being married alive.
- vkx86
- Ohhhhhh My!
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:18 am
- Has thanked: 41 times
- Been thanked: 56 times
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
Nothing is like taking things apart...
That oil is index fluid - maybe it changed it's properties with time, thus causing fog.
Or it simply leaked outside the stack leaving optical surfaces without it.
That oil is index fluid - maybe it changed it's properties with time, thus causing fog.
Or it simply leaked outside the stack leaving optical surfaces without it.
- Bastelhannes
- Ohhhhhh My!
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:38 am
- Has thanked: 83 times
- Been thanked: 138 times
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
Thank you vkx86!
What do you think? Disassemble the optical parts? I have a screwdriver and hammer at hand...
What do you think? Disassemble the optical parts? I have a screwdriver and hammer at hand...
My greatest fear is being married alive.
- vkx86
- Ohhhhhh My!
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:18 am
- Has thanked: 41 times
- Been thanked: 56 times
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
Me thinks - absolutely not, do not touch the stack!!!Bastelhannes wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 10:37 am Thank you vkx86!
What do you think? Disassemble the optical parts? I have a screwdriver and hammer at hand...
I think you reached the edge, I would send the filter to DayStar at that stage - the most precious part in that stack is the mica sheet, it maybe a very good one with some overhaul (such as oil replacement) done on it
BTW, I like your sig
-
- Way More Fun to Share It!!
- Posts: 2161
- Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:46 pm
- Location: France
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 2725 times
- Contact:
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
Hello,Bastelhannes wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 8:07 am Okay...
Threw away the collimation lens of the daystar and replaced it by a 3x telecentric barlow from Explorer Scientific (MEADE). Now the image is crystal clear, but very very dim...
Sigh.. long way to go
Thanks for sharing these pictures.
What do you mean by "collimation lens" ? There is no such thing in a DayStar filter.
Christian Viladrich
Co-author of "Planetary Astronomy"
http://planetary-astronomy.com/
Editor of "Solar Astronomy"
http://www.astronomiesolaire.com/
Co-author of "Planetary Astronomy"
http://planetary-astronomy.com/
Editor of "Solar Astronomy"
http://www.astronomiesolaire.com/
- Bastelhannes
- Ohhhhhh My!
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:38 am
- Has thanked: 83 times
- Been thanked: 138 times
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
Hi Christian,
there ist one collimation lens in front of it. FL approximately 200 mm.
there ist one collimation lens in front of it. FL approximately 200 mm.
My greatest fear is being married alive.
-
- Way More Fun to Share It!!
- Posts: 2161
- Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:46 pm
- Location: France
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 2725 times
- Contact:
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
Maybe we are not talking about the same thing.Bastelhannes wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 7:54 pm Hi Christian,
there ist one collimation lens in front of it. FL approximately 200 mm.
In the photo of the stack you have attached, there are 7 optical elements (without the two polarizers). All the elements are stuck together with optical grease. Do you mean one of these elements is a collimating lens ?
Christian Viladrich
Co-author of "Planetary Astronomy"
http://planetary-astronomy.com/
Editor of "Solar Astronomy"
http://www.astronomiesolaire.com/
Co-author of "Planetary Astronomy"
http://planetary-astronomy.com/
Editor of "Solar Astronomy"
http://www.astronomiesolaire.com/
- Bastelhannes
- Ohhhhhh My!
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:38 am
- Has thanked: 83 times
- Been thanked: 138 times
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
You are correct Christian,
in the Oreo cookie stack there is no collimator.
I am going to send this fine piece to Daystar to geht teh right pressure on the Mica plate...
in the Oreo cookie stack there is no collimator.
I am going to send this fine piece to Daystar to geht teh right pressure on the Mica plate...
My greatest fear is being married alive.
- Bob Yoesle
- Almost There...
- Posts: 996
- Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:24 pm
- Has thanked: 541 times
- Been thanked: 811 times
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
The pink filter in the diagram is the order selection blocking filter, it generally has a gold reflective coating. The red filter is an RG630 or thereabouts, it also has the same characteristics of the Coronado ITF with sliver layers to block the longer IR wavelengths. Either or both of them can deteriorate over time. See here for what you might be in for.
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
Curiosity is the father of knowledge; uncertainty is the mother of wisdom.
Dark-Sky Defenders
Goldendale Observatory
Curiosity is the father of knowledge; uncertainty is the mother of wisdom.
Dark-Sky Defenders
Goldendale Observatory
- Bastelhannes
- Ohhhhhh My!
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:38 am
- Has thanked: 83 times
- Been thanked: 138 times
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
After some testing in the sun (unfortunately it is very cloudy today) I discovered the image is crisp sharp now, but very dim. It looks like, the CWL has shifted. Daystar states on their website:
"The Fabry- Perot Etalon is an excruciatingly fragile element. Housed deep inside your filter, it must remain undisturbed or it could experience damage. Damage occurs when elements are separated, twisted, pulled or slid against one another; or even the release of tension in opening the filter assembly. That motion causes sections of the coating to slide, clump or vein in effects as light as crackling or severe as complete coating failure. The etalon is the most delicate, fragile and expensive part of the DayStar Filter. Simply releasing tension from your housing puts your etalon at risk of permanent damage. A damaged etalon crystal will deliver off-band and/or uneven width or wavelength light throughout the image. It is not possible to repair a damaged etalon crystal. It must be replaced."
Looks like mine is offband now. I will try to increase the tension....
"The Fabry- Perot Etalon is an excruciatingly fragile element. Housed deep inside your filter, it must remain undisturbed or it could experience damage. Damage occurs when elements are separated, twisted, pulled or slid against one another; or even the release of tension in opening the filter assembly. That motion causes sections of the coating to slide, clump or vein in effects as light as crackling or severe as complete coating failure. The etalon is the most delicate, fragile and expensive part of the DayStar Filter. Simply releasing tension from your housing puts your etalon at risk of permanent damage. A damaged etalon crystal will deliver off-band and/or uneven width or wavelength light throughout the image. It is not possible to repair a damaged etalon crystal. It must be replaced."
Looks like mine is offband now. I will try to increase the tension....
My greatest fear is being married alive.
-
- Way More Fun to Share It!!
- Posts: 2161
- Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:46 pm
- Location: France
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 2725 times
- Contact:
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
There is no relation at all between the pressure of the optical oil and the CWL of the etalon. Indeed, there is no pressure applied to the optical oil.
The elements of the stack are stuck together by the action of superficiel tension. Nothing more.
The CWL of the etalon is tuned by tilting the stack. This is how T-scanner are tuned. Have you tried this ?
Do not try to apply any pressure on the stack. This is the best way to destroy the etalon.
Remember that the "etalon" is just a very thin sheet of mica coated on both side. It is very fragile. It is protected by the other optical elements of the stack: RG630, BF10A, etc.
The elements of the stack are stuck together by the action of superficiel tension. Nothing more.
The CWL of the etalon is tuned by tilting the stack. This is how T-scanner are tuned. Have you tried this ?
Do not try to apply any pressure on the stack. This is the best way to destroy the etalon.
Remember that the "etalon" is just a very thin sheet of mica coated on both side. It is very fragile. It is protected by the other optical elements of the stack: RG630, BF10A, etc.
Christian Viladrich
Co-author of "Planetary Astronomy"
http://planetary-astronomy.com/
Editor of "Solar Astronomy"
http://www.astronomiesolaire.com/
Co-author of "Planetary Astronomy"
http://planetary-astronomy.com/
Editor of "Solar Astronomy"
http://www.astronomiesolaire.com/
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
Hi Group,
from the ser# it was sent out 11/1993.
It would be a good idea to put it back in the cell with the pressure of the o-rings. What can happen is that taking the pressure a way you can get a grease separation . This separation can happen anywhere in the filter stack. It can also happen with the etalon windows. All the other places are easy to regrease. But when you pull the windows off the etalon . You will be holding your breath hoping it comes off clean. If it doesn't and you have to peel it off the other window. You risk cracking the etalon.
The T-Scanner were etalon that came out to long for a heated oven. So the peak can be on Ha anywhere from 30C to 5C. depending where it was going to be sent. But most were +1 Ang in the red. I see your saids 24C, that is a good place for most of the time of the year.
The optical grease does not run, The only grease you will find on the outside of the filter stack would have been from the compression of the o- rings.
Mark W.
from the ser# it was sent out 11/1993.
It would be a good idea to put it back in the cell with the pressure of the o-rings. What can happen is that taking the pressure a way you can get a grease separation . This separation can happen anywhere in the filter stack. It can also happen with the etalon windows. All the other places are easy to regrease. But when you pull the windows off the etalon . You will be holding your breath hoping it comes off clean. If it doesn't and you have to peel it off the other window. You risk cracking the etalon.
The T-Scanner were etalon that came out to long for a heated oven. So the peak can be on Ha anywhere from 30C to 5C. depending where it was going to be sent. But most were +1 Ang in the red. I see your saids 24C, that is a good place for most of the time of the year.
The optical grease does not run, The only grease you will find on the outside of the filter stack would have been from the compression of the o- rings.
Mark W.
- astroshot
- Almost There...
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:24 pm
- Location: Kildare, Ireland
- Has thanked: 335 times
- Been thanked: 252 times
- Contact:
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
Interesting that your T-Scanner states an operating temp.
For temp, mine just says 'Amb'.
My Serial number is TS1-600
IIRC, this references the year of production in some way??
For temp, mine just says 'Amb'.
My Serial number is TS1-600
IIRC, this references the year of production in some way??
Michael in Kildare, Ireland.
TEC140
Coronado Solarmax 90
Daystar 0.6A T-Scanner
Baader Cool-Ceramic Safety Herschel Wedge
TEC140
Coronado Solarmax 90
Daystar 0.6A T-Scanner
Baader Cool-Ceramic Safety Herschel Wedge
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
The ser#on the originals were month/year, as for the temperature ,I liked to put a real # so you knew were it would work best ,Del like to put Amb,The new Daystar probably changed it
Mark W
Mark W
- Bastelhannes
- Ohhhhhh My!
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:38 am
- Has thanked: 83 times
- Been thanked: 138 times
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
Mark,
Thank you for the email you have send me. But unfortunately I never got an answer to my response or my private message here. I wanted to send the Quark stack to you; but unfortunately I am in hospital for the next 6-8 weeks.
Would it be possible to discuss this afterwards?
Karsten
Thank you for the email you have send me. But unfortunately I never got an answer to my response or my private message here. I wanted to send the Quark stack to you; but unfortunately I am in hospital for the next 6-8 weeks.
Would it be possible to discuss this afterwards?
Karsten
My greatest fear is being married alive.
-
- Ohhhhhh My!
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:26 pm
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 58 times
Re: Daystar T-Scanner disassembling
I had a 0.7Å T-scanner years ago just to have some fun and see how it did work compared to my old ATM.
Your story reminds me about a dealer in my country who thought it was a piece of cake to repair an ATM filter, and it is now an expensive door stopper.
Let Mark have a look when you are back.
Good luck with it all!!
Your story reminds me about a dealer in my country who thought it was a piece of cake to repair an ATM filter, and it is now an expensive door stopper.
Let Mark have a look when you are back.
Good luck with it all!!