Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

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Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by marktownley »

I'm sorry, but this is absolute guff in the marketing of this.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/solar- ... 540nm.html

I'm not having a pop at FLO here, they just put on their website what they're told. If those sample images are supposed to sell it Baader need to think again.

I like the concept of the product but I think the blurb is misleading to wrong.

Just my 2c...


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by Rusted »

The idea of a narrower filter suppressing atmospheric turbulence is "interesting" to say the least.
Our much narrower H-alpha systems should be turbulence free. Guess what? They aren't.
Oh, hang on though... perhaps atmospheric turbulence is only in the green wavelengths? :lol:


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by rsfoto »

... suppressing the effects of the atmospheric turbulence and delivering images that are significantly sharper.
WOW, I guess I need to buy one and then I will not have the bitten limb as I got the last time I imaged in White light ...

:mrgreen:


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by Dennis »

..unusual marketing of Baader i would say.


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Hmm...Would there be any visual difference between the 10nm and 7.5nm models?

Give better contrast they do. Remove turbulence effects and improve the seeing they don't. They are effective at removing chromatic aberration though.

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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by GreatAttractor »

It's probably not best worded in that description, but doesn't a narrowband filter reduce seeing effects to some extent? As light goes through different-density air parcels, it undergoes dispersion depending on the wavelength, and if you try to catch it all on a sensor, you get blur. A narrow interval of wavelengths disperses less.

Of course I don't know how strong the effect is. One would have to do a fully controlled test, as in: two identical telescopes mounted side-by-side, recording simultaneously, one with a broadband and the other with a narrowband filter, with Sun high in the sky to avoid the (constant, elevation-dependent) atmospheric dispersion.


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by alessbonsai »

Yesterday I bought this filter for photographs in WL, before I used a green filter, I can say that I had a clear improvement, photographer from the center of Rome.
I could only try it for 10 minutes, but I have already seen that it works well, I hope these days to have the sky clear of clouds
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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by alessbonsai »

Some tests in the clouds, with only the green filter I would not have had the same result, I have to elaborate better .... I run away to work
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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by DeepSolar64 »

There’s no spectral line at 540nm, right? If there is no spectral line there it doesn’t look like lowering the bandpass would make much difference besides possibly making the view dimmer. What would 540 look like at one nanometer?, at 1.5 angstrom? 🤔

It does seem to make a difference using a 430nm Gband filter. A 1nm filter or under is said to show Gband features much better than a 10nm one. Are they a spectral line at 430nm?


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by marktownley »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:30 pm There’s no spectral line at 540nm, right? If there is no spectral line there it doesn’t look like lowering the bandpass would make much difference besides possibly making the view dimmer.
Exactly. :)


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by Dennis »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:30 pm There’s no spectral line at 540nm, right? If there is no spectral line there it doesn’t look like lowering the bandpass would make much difference besides possibly making the view dimmer. What would 540 look like at one nanometer?, at 1.5 angstrom? 🤔

It does seem to make a difference using a 430nm Gband filter. A 1nm filter or under is said to show Gband features much better than a 10nm one. Are they a spectral line at 430nm?
True, but another advantage could be to reduce chromatic abberations with achromat refractors? Or is that not a problem anyways with wl-imaging?
Thats the only advantage i can see with a narrower filter in this case. This would indeed result in a sharper image. But you would lose a bit of light flux.


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by Radon86 »

Christian has been explaining that a narrowband O3 filter is better than a 540nm continuum filter.
Maybe going up in altitude will result in better detail as well. Still, thank you Baader, another 170 gbp sterling going your way!!


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Dennis, All.
That is a great use for the 540nm filter. It does totally eliminate chromatic aberration from an achromatic refactor and is especially useful with any achromat under F8! And yes it does increase contrast on the photospheric disc.

I have seriously thought about obtaining an OIII filter for solar use.

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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by christian viladrich »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:30 pm
It does seem to make a difference using a 430nm Gband filter. A 1nm filter or under is said to show Gband features much better than a 10nm one. Are they a spectral line at 430nm?
Yes indeed, there is a group of spectral lines at 430 nm. It corresponds, when observed with greater spectral resolution, to a set of absorption
lines involving transitions between states of rotation and vibration of the CH molecule.

Top spectrum is the solar spectrum, bottom spectrum is filtered by a G-band filter (2.5 nm FWHM)
http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/in ... ndover.jpg

This line is widely used by professionals to study the magnetic field of the photosphere at the smallest spatial scales.

It is rather strange that G-band filters are not yet easily available to the amateur community while other less relevant filters are.


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Thanks for the information Christian. Marty Wise has mentioned to me the relevance of ultra-narrowband 430nm Gband filters. I bought from him a wide-band ( 10nm ) 430nm Edmund Optical filter last year. He stated that it was not narrow enough to see true Gband detail but would still help me in resolution in good seeing because of the shorter wavelength.

A 430nm Gband DayStar Quark or Lunt Gband module would be nice wouldn't it!?

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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by christian viladrich »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:23 pm Thanks for the information Christian. Marty Wise has mentioned to me the relevance of ultra-narrowband 430nm Gband filters. I bought from him a wide-band ( 10nm ) 430nm Edmund Optical filter last year. He stated that it was not narrow enough to see true Gband detail but would still help me in resolution in good seeing because of the shorter wavelength.

A 430nm Gband DayStar Quark or Lunt Gband module would be nice wouldn't it!?

James
A 430 nm Quark would be too dark.
A 430 nm 3 nm FWHM Antlia filter would be much better. And optics are much better at 430 nm than 394 nm.


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by DeepSolar64 »

christian viladrich wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:26 am
DeepSolar64 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:23 pm Thanks for the information Christian. Marty Wise has mentioned to me the relevance of ultra-narrowband 430nm Gband filters. I bought from him a wide-band ( 10nm ) 430nm Edmund Optical filter last year. He stated that it was not narrow enough to see true Gband detail but would still help me in resolution in good seeing because of the shorter wavelength.

A 430nm Gband DayStar Quark or Lunt Gband module would be nice wouldn't it!?

James
A 430 nm Quark would be too dark.
A 430 nm 3 nm FWHM Antlia filter would be much better. And optics are much better at 430 nm than 394 nm.

Does Antlia make such a filter?


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by christian viladrich »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:05 pm
A 430 nm Quark would be too dark.
A 430 nm 3 nm FWHM Antlia filter would be much better. And optics are much better at 430 nm than 394 nm.
[/quote]

Does Antlia make such a filter?
[/quote]

They have the technology to do it since they make 3 nm filters for deep sky imaging, as well as a 393-3 nm for solar imaging
BTW, they have the bad idea to call this last filter a Ca K filter, while it is not.


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by DeepSolar64 »

christian viladrich wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:22 pm
DeepSolar64 wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:05 pm
A 430 nm Quark would be too dark.
A 430 nm 3 nm FWHM Antlia filter would be much better. And optics are much better at 430 nm than 394 nm.
Does Antlia make such a filter?
[/quote]

They have the technology to do it since they make 3 nm filters for deep sky imaging, as well as a 393-3 nm for solar imaging
BTW, they have the bad idea to call this last filter a Ca K filter, while it is not.
[/quote]

Yes, while the Antlia filter centers on the CaIIK line it is too wideband to be called a true CaK filter. I would call it a K-Line filter instead. I may eventually get one of these for they show faculae across the disc a bit better than the Baader 540nm filter does.


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by solarchatted »

Just stumbled upon this thread, after I saw Baader selling (or trying to sell) another addition to the mix.

I am no expert on photometry ... etc. but I have a hunch.

In my humble view, the 7.5nm - as opposed to the older 10nm (which I bought many years ago and not used much, will try again now I have a proper Wedge!) will only be better to observers that are in a location where there is less turbulence in the air.

Don't you think?
I personally cannot grasp the difference since the 10nm is already 'subtle and I actually saw for myself - the few times I used it - very dependent to weather as per any observation with any telescopes or/and filters.


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I have the Baader 10nm bp 540nm filter. I do find it useful. I doubt the 7.5nm bandpass filter would make much difference.


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by TareqPhoto »

Thank you, i was thinking about that 7.5nm as i do have the old one 10nm, sounds it is not necessary then


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by Stu »

For my sins, I bought a Mark II CoolWedge and still have my Mark I, clearly fell for the Baader marketing hype 🤣. This should give me a relatively easy way of doing some visual comparisons between the 7.5nm and 10nm, assuming the wedge quality is the same which I believe it is. Although obviously that’s not a useful as an imaging comparison it may be of some interest.

I have two options, either swap the units in and out of the scope, or I have a Vixen FL102S as well as the FC100DC which are pretty much identical in optical quality so could put them side by side with as closely matched magnifications as I can achieve.

I’ve always thought the 10nm is a useful addition, and have preferred it to an OIII which I also tried in the past.


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Re: Baader 'New' 7.5nm Solar Continuum Filter - Marketing Guff

Post by Dennis »

From the borders of the example image and from the homogenity and quality of the granulation it looks like that this is a non stacked image. Somehow somebody messed sth up and thought that image stacking is not necessary anymore with this filter? : D
Anyways.. not the best example images for the product.. as so often from Baader.


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