November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

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DeepSolar64
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November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

My session time was from 16:50 until 18:07 UTC. The skies were mostly clear and the seeing was below average. The temperature was 48F ( 8.8C ) at 18:00 UTC. The session was terminated when my Orion70 slipped from the cradle of the Celestron AstroMaster mount damaging the focuser. It hit the ground on the diagonal which forced the focuser up breaking off some of the cogs on the drawtube. It turns out that they are made of plastic!! The cogs on the focuser knob shaft are metal and broke an inch long strip of cogs on the drawtube when dropped. Needless to say it makes the scope useless since it now cannot be focused easily. I can't complain since the scope has performed very well considering the low 133 dollars I paid for it. I would even consider buying a new one just like it from Orion if Orion still sold them. I did order a cheap focuser off eBay for a 70mm refractor. I just hope it fits and the focus travel is enough. The ordered rack and pinion focuser is a bit shorter in length than the stock focuser but looks to have a decent-length drawtube. I do have another scope for white light, the Astro-Tech AT72EDII. I'll use the Altair wedge on it that I usually use on the Celestron 102. I certainly don't want this one to fall out of the rail cradle!! From now on out I will check the screws holding the rail/scope into the mounting cradle before every session. I am so glad it wasn't the Coronado that took the tumble. That would have not been good :o


Coronado SolarMax II 60. 16x, 25x and 33x ( Ha )
I can see at least nine active regions across the solar chromosphere at 656.28nm. Five of these are in the northern hemisphere with three of these having assigned NOAA number labels. Four regions of activity are seen in the southern hemisphere. Two of these have NOAA labeling.

AR13149 is seen as a plage in the NE quadrant. Just west of the CLM I can see another plage. Three plages are seen further west. AR13150 is the easiest to see and has a couple of visible spots within it. AR13146 shows itself as a low contrast plage just NE of AR13150. Another small plage is seen SE of AR13150. A line of filaments is seen in the NW quadrant that ending with a small prominence on the limb.

AR13147 is easily seen in the SE quadrant by it's spot and plage. Some fine filaments can be seen SE and west of the spot. SW of AR13147 lies AR13148. I can see a couple of close together spots amid the plage. Two filaments lie NNW of it among fainter plage and an easy filament is seen east of the spots. I can see a lightened area under it easier than what the GONG BBSO Ha image shows! Two low contrast disturbances are seen in the SW quadrant. An easy filament is seen below the disturbance nearest the limb. I had to search for the filaprom at the southern limb but finally was able to find/see it.

I can see almost all of the prominences shown on the GONG BBSO Ha image. A bridgelike prom is seen on the SW limb SW of a nice filament. Another small prom is seen just north of it. The SSW and Southern limb shows the limb-skirting filaprom with a close look. The eastern limb shows two proms at the equator. A double one with a fainter one just to it's north. Three other proms are seen on the NE limb. The center one is volcano shaped.

The mottles are seen across the disc.


Orion 70mm Solar Telescope. 20x, 25x and 50x ( WL )
Six active regions are visible through my ill-fated Orion70 on the white light photosphere. Three in the northern hemisphere with all three carrying NOAA labeling. Three are visible in the southern hemisphere with two of these carrying NOAA labels.

AR13149 in the NE quadrant shows itself as two spots and two pores for a total of four seen. AR13150 is seen in the NW quadrant as a group of three spots and two pores. The SDOHMI continuum 2K image shows nine additional pores. The three spots show umbra-penumbra form but it's much more developed in the larger westernmost spot. Faint faculae immerse the spots of AR13150. NE of AR13150 lies the faintly visible faculae of AR13146.

Just inward of the SW limb lies a scattered patch of faculae. AR13147 in the SE quadrant shows itself as a single large spot with two umbrae. A larger one with a smaller one to it's east. They share a penumbra. Another smaller spot is immediately east of the large spot. I can only hint at a pore to the south of the smaller spot. Faint low contrast faculae lies just to the east. I can see two spots and two pores that are associated with AR13148 SW of AR13147. SDOHMIc 2K shows at least three additional pores here that I could not see.

The granulation can be seen but not well.


Carpe Lumen!

James



GONGBigBearCA_11-19-22.jpg
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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Aaron,
I had the scope to tumble about a year ago for the same thing but no damage was done. The built in filter and objective are fine. The diagonal wasn't harmed either. The focuser looks metal but I think the entire drawtube is metalized plastic. If it would have been metal it probably would have held up. But it's my fault. I should always do a " pre flight " check.

To bed I go. Goodnight.

James


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by marktownley »

Thanks for the report JAmes. That's frustrating about the scope, hopefully the ebay focuser will be a good fit.


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by rigel123 »

Nice report James, so sorry about the scope. I always have that fear of forgetting to double check how secure the scope is. I also have to remember to double check the set screws on the blocking filter on my Lunt as it spun from the pull of the camera cable the other day and could have pulled out completely since I had forgotten to tighten the second screw!


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by MAURITS »

Thanks for the report James, sorry to hear about the broken focuser on that orion scope.


Regards,
Maurits

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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by Montana »

Oh James, that sounds horrible, I do hope you can fix it. That is one of my worst nightmares, I too need to do a wet weather check of all screws and bolts as a winter job, thanks for reminding me :(

Great observations though :) at least you got your observation in beforehand ;)

Alexandra


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Thanks everyone. I should get the new focuser in two weeks or less. Until then I will use the AT72EDII which is actually a superior scope since it is an F6 apochromatic doublet with two ED glass elements. I just need another wedge for it since I have to borrow the one from the C102. Despite a gain of only 2mm in aperture over the little Orion this scope with the wedge weighs 2.5 times that of the Orion70!

For the money the Astro-Tech scopes are hard to beat!


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James
Last edited by DeepSolar64 on Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by Bill_C »

Hi James hope your new focuser goes on without any issues.


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Bill_C wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:25 pm Hi James hope your new focuser goes on without any issues.
Me too. I am just glad I have backup instruments! Thanks Bill.


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

StarHugger wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:40 pm That At72 is looking awesome James!
It's a nice scope for the 465 dollars I paid for the OTA. With the Altair wedge, TV 20mm Plossl and SW AZGTI mount it runs a bit over 1000 dollars as seen here.


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I have a move coming in the near future to Lowndesville SC after I sell my house. Hopefully after this is all done I will have enough cash left over after restarting everything and doing some work on my dad's house to buy a new larger, at least 127mm, refractor or SCT. Depending on how much money I have available I am considering a Celestron C6-R ( C150 ) achromat, Astro-Tech AT130EDT APO triplet or if things are really good a Takahashi TOA130 triplet APO. I would also consider a Celestron C8 Edge HD SCT. The 150mm Sky-Watcher APO doublet is worth consideration too.


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by marktownley »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:25 pm I have a move coming in the near future to Lowndesville SC after I sell my house. Hopefully after this is all done I will have enough cash left over after restarting everything and doing some work on my dad's house to buy a new larger, at least 127mm, refractor or SCT. Depending on how much money I have available I am considering a Celestron C6-R ( C150 ) achromat, Astro-Tech AT130EDT APO triplet or if things are really good a Takahashi TOA130 triplet APO. I would also consider a Celestron C8 Edge HD SCT. The 150mm Sky-Watcher APO doublet is worth consideration too.
I think i'd go for the At130 there James...


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by ffellah »

Thank you for the report and sorry for the accident, James.

Franco


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

You are welcome Franco. It could have been much worse. It could have been the Coronado!


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

My cheap new rack and pinion replacement focuser came in last night and I installed it on the scope. While it wasn’t an exact fit it was close. The tube holes and the focuser holes are offset a little so the focuser doesn’t set quite horizontal on the tube and I had to drill the holes in the focuser a little bigger to get the screws in but it worked. I used it in today’s session and it did wonderfully. The focuser is smoother and has a less mushy feel than the original. I’ll post later. I am at a family belated Thanksgiving dinner now.

James

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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by Ibbo »

Good that you are up and running again.


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

The AT72EDII was more than enough to fill in for the Orion70 and could indeed replace it using the wedge. But that little cheap scope does surprisingly well and falls only slightly behind the AT72EDII in performance. What I like about the little orion is it’s very light weight and simplicity. The glass filter over the objective is fixed and is not meant to be removed and the 70 weighs less than half that of the similarly sized 72. I am certainly glad it’s up and running again.


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Hello James,
So sorry to hear about the recent scope accident.

Suggestion = with lightweight thin/flexible cord, try tying a safety-line between the relevant items - to hopefully prevent a similar occurrence in the future. Typical purchase from hardware shops and even some fishing-tackle suppliers..

For instance cameras to the scope-body - has definitely saved damage in my experiences.
Scope to motor-unit is a must and a little imagination various other application parts are nearly always available for the purpose..

ps "Pre-Flight Checks" is something that is mandatory before any flying-activities, albeit never used that as such for checking scopes etc., but perhaps a useful phrase for this purpose !!

Best Wishes
Terry


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Terry, not a bad idea. A length of twine, thin nylon cord or fishing line should work well. Now to think of an easy neat way to attach one end to the scope and another end to the mount. The objective is to keep the scope from hitting the ground if it comes out of the mounting cradle.

But making sure the screws are tight at the beginning of the session is the best prevention.

James


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Agrees James and will also act as a reminder to check things are tight enough in the future.

(cost so-small as to be negligible - compared to repairing/replacing damaged items) + less tears :mad: :evil: :o too...

It's all too-easy to make "mistooks"

Cheers
Terry


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

“ It's all too-easy to make "mistooks"_Terry “.

Agreed!


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by Peterm »

Great report and so sorry to read the terrible 'scope accident.

This got me thinking about the what if it happened to me, then I remembered it almost has. Just like Warren my Blocking Filter has spun, luckily I was quick enough to avoid disaster.

So your post prompted me to look for a solution using lanyards and tethers. I think I may have found one by using sunglasses neck bands. They are relatively cheap and surprisingly strong. I have attached one around the camera and one around the blocking filter per the pic. I attached them to a keyring that sits under a screw for the Moonlite mounting plate at the scope end, you may have other securing points available. I tested the drop on them using a half kilo weight and they worked quite well. You could use thicker bands to maybe give you time to react and save the 'scope in such a disaster, unless the mount goes as well!
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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

That's a really good idea. I wonder if they are strong enough to hold a small lightweight refractor. Terry has also suggested tethering the scope to the mount giving it a safety line to catch it before hitting the ground if it should become loose from the cradle.


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

That's a neat arrangement Peterm (Peter) and certainly does protect the gear from a hard-landing.

Perhaps that will infuse our James and so many others of us, to get a grip (of sorts) in tackling this gravitational-snag ?? :lol: :oops: :cat :bow

Terry


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by Peterm »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:10 am That's a really good idea. I wonder if they are strong enough to hold a small lightweight refractor. Terry has also suggested tethering the scope to the mount giving it a safety line to catch it before hitting the ground if it should become loose from the cradle.
Yup Terry hit the nail on the head for sure and had me onto finding my own solution asap. Thanks Terry!

I don't think the arrangement in my pic would be ideal but an idea I have is to get a laptop Kensington cable and modify it to act as a tether between my Lunt and AVX mount. These cables are thin steel and are better still plastic wrapped. Already crimped one end so you can cut the lock end to a length, crimp it and then have that securing the scope/mount just enough that if the 'scope slipped in its saddle you may be able to save the day from Mr Newton!

Many, many years ago when CCD cameras found their way into amateur hands they cost an arm and a leg. I remember one quote "So I have a $5000 camera and 30 cent screw securing it to my telescope". Times haven't changed really, cameras can still cost an arm and a leg and securing screws are still 30 cents, though you may get 2 or 3! The more I think about it I am surprised someone hasn't made a telescope "fashion" accessory... tethers for telescopes, cameras, eyepieces etc. They exist for Go Pros, biking computers etc.

So yes, your post and unfortunate outcome are very timely. The cost and grief to replace these items can be very expensive indeed. Home contents insurance if in place, or even if available may lessen the financial burden, but maybe not the grief.

Peter


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Hi Peter,
Very interesting comments and thanks vm.

Steel cable as in Kensington Locks, coud prove a problem where the cable really needs to be very flexible in some parts of the usage,
otherwise I have used much more flexible cord from either fishing-tackle or hardware shops.

Being a former Boy Scout etc., learning how to use knots, has been used where one or more different knots have been use - with great effect.

Some years ago in my observatory, the Double Stack unit fell to the floor whilst it was unscrewed from the Lunt 60Ha scope. No real way of adding a safety-line for that, so it had to be returned to Lunt for an expensive replacement, as was not worth using the insurance-cover for that.
So the replacement now has thick rubber-bands around the DS for far better grip and to lesson the repetition..

ps I made my own "tethers" for next to nothing in price, so didn't need to search for something better..

Best Wishes
Terry


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I dropped my 60mm stacking etalon once when I was unscrewing it. It landed on mossy ground and suffered no damage. I was lucky.


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by Peterm »

EGRAY_OBSERVATORY wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:42 am Hi Peter,
Very interesting comments and thanks vm.

Steel cable as in Kensington Locks, coud prove a problem where the cable really needs to be very flexible in some parts of the usage,
otherwise I have used much more flexible cord from either fishing-tackle or hardware shops.

Being a former Boy Scout etc., learning how to use knots, has been used where one or more different knots have been use - with great effect.

Some years ago in my observatory, the Double Stack unit fell to the floor whilst it was unscrewed from the Lunt 60Ha scope. No real way of adding a safety-line for that, so it had to be returned to Lunt for an expensive replacement, as was not worth using the insurance-cover for that.
So the replacement now has thick rubber-bands around the DS for far better grip and to lesson the repetition..

ps I made my own "tethers" for next to nothing in price, so didn't need to search for something better..

Best Wishes
Terry
Ouch, that would have really hurt even more than just $ wise I am sure, hurt me enough just to read about it. Very useful to read your solutions. I have now completed the Camera, Blocking Filter and 'Scope tethers for my 80mm for under $5 per the pic. I used a wider Lanyard and same securing but around the saddle bolts for the 'scope. I let the 'scope slip back in several mount positions and the lanyard held it so it wouldn't come out of the saddle. I have a Double Stack on my 60mm Lunt that can stay on, but if its does need to come off your rubber band idea is a beauty, thanks! So I guess double check and check again or tether, we have been warned!

Best,
Peter
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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Peter,
I have always praised the Coronado scopes for their gold and black tubes but this Lunt 60mm is a beauty! I'll see if I can get me one of these lanyards from work if I can. That's a wonderful idea and while I am at it see if I can find me some easy grip wide rubber bands for my DS etalon as Terry has suggested. I had totally forgotten about that.

Now how would one drop-protect a heavy scope like a SMII90 or a Lunt 100 or bigger? Or a HaT SCT!?? :shock: :o

Little scopes below 80mm are easy by comparison.

James


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Hello Peter & James et-al

Yes James, you're lucky on your DS dropping onto soft-ground with no damage, whereas mine dropped from around 6-feet onto the carpeted observatory floor with filters badly cracked. The white barrel was a slippery part to hold and with numerous turns to unscrew it from the scope, suddenly was loose to the "gravity effects"..

The remedy as shown in the attached image - shows the rubber-bands giving far better grip to this fairly heavy object...

Suitable larger rubber-bands should be available from your local-store and/or stationary shop...

Larger scopes etc., should pose no problem too, as long as the scope-stand/tripod is stable enough to be suddenly able to capture the "gravity" drop scenario, so ones imagination should provide the answer there, with perhaps some testing using say "bricks" or heavy-weights :seesaw :lol:

Hi Peter, thanks for your additional pics, which clearly show your efforts in dealing with "gravity"..
Good insurance investment of the $5

Of course the need to operate the scope in the many positions to ensure no-snagging of the cords when slewing etc., especially using an automatic/remote control slewing and even more-so for those who use their gear at night - in the dark.

I found that an added-advantage of using the lanyard system, is that when changing/removing items, sometimes they can simply hang on their lanyards for the changes - negating undoing, until the need to replacing/refitting each. Especially the camera - this could apply and thus without finding somewhere to put the camera whilst changing optics/filters etc...

"So I guess double check and check again or tether, we have been warned!" is definitely agreeable and less expensive too :cat

Best Wishes and Clear Skies
Terry
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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

WoW, Terry. You have it coated in rubber! Put another layer and it would bounce if it fell. Nice idea!!

James

P.S. I hope you get to use it again.


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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

" Put another layer and it would bounce if it fell. Nice idea!! "

Well James, I'm sure I wouldn't actually test it to confirm whether or not, but hopefully to date - it has not slipped out of my hand..

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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by Peterm »

Howdy,

I have made more progress on securing my gear from gravity thanks to a friend with a 3D printer and an interesting 3D site I found below.

Camera - a friend 3D printed for me the white plastic USB3 cord support and he added a tether point to the support. The support is secured at the camera end by a bolt that screws conveniently into the back of the camera. A tether then secures it to the bolt at the Moonlite focuser. The other advantage of this support is that it helps stop any movement of the USB3 cable. I found the support 3D plans on the top row of page 2 at this site, my friend said it was easy to add the tether point before printing https://www.yeggi.com/q/zwo+asi/

Best,

Peter
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Re: November 19 2022 Observations. Scope accident! :-(

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Nice idea!!


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