First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

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First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Averton »

I finally managed to remove all of Peter's excuses for not getting around to completing our SSM. (It's easier to herd cats!) It has been sitting around in an operational state but not usable for months. Hooray - today was the day!!
It was actually very interesting to visually confirm our suspicions regarding our local seeing. Every day we observe I record the conditions from the met bureau, Meteoblue and Skippy. It will be interesting to have the SSM data to add to this. The data shows periodic fluctuations over minute or greater intervals. The average seeing rarely got below 2 arc seconds and there were times when any collected data was going to be unusable. This matches very closely to our experiences.
Anyway it was a lovely sunny morning and we spent 2 enjoyable hours gathering images of an impressive sun and also saying our farewells to AR3190.
Completed SSM
IMG_5306 small.JPG
IMG_5306 small.JPG (882.38 KiB) Viewed 853 times
Screen captures of the data being collected - one showing a bad patch of seeing
Screenshot at 2023-01-25 09-59-05.png
Screenshot at 2023-01-25 09-59-05.png (96.31 KiB) Viewed 853 times
Screenshot at 2023-01-25 10-50-16.png
Screenshot at 2023-01-25 10-50-16.png (87.54 KiB) Viewed 853 times
A spreadsheet chart of the entire session created from the log file
Screenshot at 2023-01-25 22-31-00.png
Screenshot at 2023-01-25 22-31-00.png (115.23 KiB) Viewed 853 times
Full disk in 540nm
2023-01-25 full disk 540nm named.jpg
2023-01-25 full disk 540nm named.jpg (721.22 KiB) Viewed 853 times
2023-01-25 full disk 540nm.jpg
2023-01-25 full disk 540nm.jpg (713.53 KiB) Viewed 853 times
Full disk in 393nm with 50mm aperture mask
2023-01-25 full disk 393nm.jpg
2023-01-25 full disk 393nm.jpg (729.24 KiB) Viewed 853 times
2023-01-25 full disk 393nm colourised.jpg
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Full disk in Ha showing a large amount of prom activity on the western limb
2023-01-25 full disk.jpg
2023-01-25 full disk.jpg (1.88 MiB) Viewed 853 times
2023-01-25 full disk colourised.jpg
2023-01-25 full disk colourised.jpg (4.48 MiB) Viewed 853 times


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by rigel123 »

Nice job on the SSM and great shots!


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Averton »

rigel123 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:18 pm Nice job on the SSM and great shots!
Thanks Warren :)


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I often use Astrospheric to obtain predictions of what my seeing conditions will be.

https://www.astrospheric.com/?Latitude ... 6998596191

Nice results on the SSM and herding cats is difficult for sure!! Only remotely possible when they want something, like food or wanting inside!

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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by marktownley »

Positive first results and great disks both of you!


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by MapleRidge »

Superb FD image set :bow

Good to see your SSM engineering project as you have it assembled too !

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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Averton »

Thanks James, Mark and Brian :)


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Peterm »

Oh wow the images are spectacular! I just admire the way you both put your mind to things and get them done and done well!


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Averton »

Peterm wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:09 am Oh wow the images are spectacular! I just admire the way you both put your mind to things and get them done and done well!
Thanks Peter :)


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Martin_S »

Great post Clare & Peter, thanks for sharing your SSM results and the really good images.


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by MAURITS »

What a great DIY SSM you made with nice results.
Beautiful detailed images too, Clare & Peter.


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by ffellah »

Fantastic that you have the skills to make your own SSM ! You have a great series of images there.

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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Averton »

Thanks Martin, Maurits and Franco :)
If anyone is interested the SSM is a reasonably simple electronics project and is well documented on-line.
There is no requirement to write your own code, all you need to be able to do is program an Arduino. All free software and a USB cable to connect to the Arduino is all you need. Also very cost effective.


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Montana »

Superb images and well done in creating an SSM :bow :hamster: I bought mine ;)

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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Averton »

Montana wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:00 pm Superb images and well done in creating an SSM :bow :hamster: I bought mine ;)

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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by arnedanielsen »

Lovely disks!

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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I would have to learn how to read the graph.


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by DavidP »

Very impressive SSM. Does it have to be calibrated somehow?
And your images are superb.


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Averton »

arnedanielsen wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:17 pm Lovely disks!

Best regards,
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Thanks Arne :)


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Averton »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:37 pm I would have to learn how to read the graph.
Hi James,

Here is the link to the manual for the commercial version of the SSM. It gives some details of how its used and what the data means.
https://www.airylab.com/contenu/SSM/Use ... SSM-EN.pdf
There are three traces on the graph.
One is the reference voltage which should be constant at approx 1V.
The second is the very variable instantaneous value of your seeing in arc seconds.
The third line is the average of the seeing, also in arc seconds.
The lower the value, the better and if there are lots of low going dips in the instantaneous value that is where the short exposure time and fast capture rates of lucky imaging can make the difference.


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Averton »

DavidP wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:34 pm Very impressive SSM. Does it have to be calibrated somehow?
And your images are superb.
Thanks David :)
Yes, the unit needs to be calibrated. This is very easy to do.
You aim the sensor at the sun and adjust the small potentiometer visible through the hole in the front panel using a jewellers screw driver until the reference voltage is 1V.
Here are a couple of links with great detail on how to make one & how it works.
https://www.blackwaterskies.co.uk/2017/ ... itor-sssm/
http://www.joachim-stehle.de/sssm_eng.html
https://www.airylab.com/contenu/SSM/Use ... SSM-EN.pdf
So far, we have found it very useful.


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Averton wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 1:44 am
DeepSolar64 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:37 pm I would have to learn how to read the graph.
Hi James,

Here is the link to the manual for the commercial version of the SSM. It gives some details of how its used and what the data means.
https://www.airylab.com/contenu/SSM/Use ... SSM-EN.pdf
There are three traces on the graph.
One is the reference voltage which should be constant at approx 1V.
The second is the very variable instantaneous value of your seeing in arc seconds.
The third line is the average of the seeing, also in arc seconds.
The lower the value, the better and if there are lots of low going dips in the instantaneous value that is where the short exposure time and fast capture rates of lucky imaging can make the difference.
Thanks!

I will certainly read the guide you have attached. The SSM is an amazing device. I can certainly see its use in solar astronomy.

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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by MichaelTeoh »

I wonder if we can somehow calculate the seeing using the video sequence we capture. I am not sure how the seeing is technically calculated by the SSM, but I think maybe we can calculate that by looking at how much a feature shifted from frame to frame?


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by PDB »

Averton wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 1:48 am
DavidP wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:34 pm Very impressive SSM. Does it have to be calibrated somehow?
And your images are superb.
Thanks David :)
Yes, the unit needs to be calibrated. This is very easy to do.
You aim the sensor at the sun and adjust the small potentiometer visible through the hole in the front panel using a jewellers screw driver until the reference voltage is 1V.
Here are a couple of links with great detail on how to make one & how it works.
https://www.blackwaterskies.co.uk/2017/ ... itor-sssm/
http://www.joachim-stehle.de/sssm_eng.html
https://www.airylab.com/contenu/SSM/Use ... SSM-EN.pdf
So far, we have found it very useful.
Hmmm,

nobody seems to remember building has been discussed in detail on SolarChat already in 2015 viewtopic.php?p=197225&hilit=ssm+build#p197225

Good to see my software is still usefull.
I see the Linux version, what software are you using for capturing? (If FC, you can steer captures from the plugin)

BTW, nice captures you made.

Paul


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by christian viladrich »

MichaelTeoh wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:42 am I wonder if we can somehow calculate the seeing using the video sequence we capture. I am not sure how the seeing is technically calculated by the SSM, but I think maybe we can calculate that by looking at how much a feature shifted from frame to frame?
The SSM measures the scintillation of the solar light. There is a linear relation between seeing and scintillation. This is true for the seeing < 1500 m altitude. The SSM is kind of blind to turbulence higher than about 2000 m (such as jet stream).

At night, there is a relation between the jitter of a star (= tip/tilt agitation) and seeing.This is the way night seeing monitors (pointed to Polaris) operate. Tilt/til agitation is "easy" to measure because stars are point like sources. This is not the case for the Sun. So the method doesn't apply to the Sun. This is the reason why of the use of the SSM.


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Averton »

PDB wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:51 am
Averton wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 1:48 am
DavidP wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:34 pm Very impressive SSM. Does it have to be calibrated somehow?
And your images are superb.
Thanks David :)
Yes, the unit needs to be calibrated. This is very easy to do.
You aim the sensor at the sun and adjust the small potentiometer visible through the hole in the front panel using a jewellers screw driver until the reference voltage is 1V.
Here are a couple of links with great detail on how to make one & how it works.
https://www.blackwaterskies.co.uk/2017/ ... itor-sssm/
http://www.joachim-stehle.de/sssm_eng.html
https://www.airylab.com/contenu/SSM/Use ... SSM-EN.pdf
So far, we have found it very useful.
Hmmm,

nobody seems to remember building has been discussed in detail on SolarChat already in 2015 viewtopic.php?p=197225&hilit=ssm+build#p197225

Good to see my software is still usefull.
I see the Linux version, what software are you using for capturing? (If FC, you can steer captures from the plugin)

BTW, nice captures you made.

Paul
Hi Paul,

Thank you for your software! It saved us the issue of writing something of our own to capture the data from the SSM.
Yes, we are aware of the previous thread re the SSM and software on Solar Chat.
We just thought from the responses to our thread that there were a number of people who were not aware, so it wouldn't hurt to include other relevant links.
Yes, we do run the software on Linux. Another thank you for having a Linux version of your software :)
No, we don't use FC. We use ZWO's own ASICAP for capturing.
The reason for this is that with no amount of adjusting environment variables have we been able to make FC capture as fast as the ZWO software. We have even gone to the point of downloading the ZWO SDK and working through some examples and compiling them to try to get to the bottom of the issue. We stopped doing this when a friend of ours, who works as a Linux developer, tried everything that he could, including custom kernels to try to fix the data transfer rate with FC on Linux and failed. He has done a lot more than us using not only ZWO cameras but QHY & PlayerOne as well. In the end, very reluctantly he has given up and bought and uses a Windows notebook running FC for capturing.
So we do not use the SSM to trigger capturing, rather we waited until the average line was trending down and then took a series of videos and then selected the best one.
Thanks again :)

Regards
Clare & Peter


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Carbon60 »

MichaelTeoh wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:42 am I wonder if we can somehow calculate the seeing using the video sequence we capture. I am not sure how the seeing is technically calculated by the SSM, but I think maybe we can calculate that by looking at how much a feature shifted from frame to frame?
I've often wondered the same thing, Michael, especially on close view images. It would make sense to have some sort of live measure of the observing conditions through the scope/filters in use.

Stu.


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Carbon60 »

Nice results, Clare and Peter. These are beautiful FDs.

Stu.


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by PDB »

The reason for this is that with no amount of adjusting environment variables have we been able to make FC capture as fast as the ZWO software
That's interesting. I did many tests some years ago (on exactly the same pc, dualbooted with win and linux), and Windows always outperformed linux for usb camera handling. But it was equal for all software I tested (FC, ZWO, my own test ...). The main problem (with the ASI178) was it started to give error 11 after a while, and usually no way to recover. (Some test by someone on INDI forum showed bugs (and incorrect error handling) in the ZWO linux libraries (he even made a replacement library that outperformed everything, but never succeeded to integrate that in existing software). But things change, but a bit surprised that ASICAP outperforms FireCapture. (maybe should retest, but then I need to rebuibuild a Linux machine)

But anyway, if it works, don't change the solution.

Regards,

Paul


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Averton »

Carbon60 wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:44 am Nice results, Clare and Peter. These are beautiful FDs.

Stu.
Thanks Stu :)


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by Averton »

PDB wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:37 am
The reason for this is that with no amount of adjusting environment variables have we been able to make FC capture as fast as the ZWO software
That's interesting. I did many tests some years ago (on exactly the same pc, dualbooted with win and linux), and Windows always outperformed linux for usb camera handling. But it was equal for all software I tested (FC, ZWO, my own test ...). The main problem (with the ASI178) was it started to give error 11 after a while, and usually no way to recover. (Some test by someone on INDI forum showed bugs (and incorrect error handling) in the ZWO linux libraries (he even made a replacement library that outperformed everything, but never succeeded to integrate that in existing software). But things change, but a bit surprised that ASICAP outperforms FireCapture. (maybe should retest, but then I need to rebuibuild a Linux machine)

But anyway, if it works, don't change the solution.

Regards,

Paul
We keep re-testing FC vs ASICAP on a regular basis everytime there is an upgrade to either the software packages or Linux itself (every 2 years for Linux as we use Ubuntu LTS) and so far not once has FC maintained a high data transfer rate. It often starts out reasonable and then appears to run out of buffer space or something as it just slows to a crawl & drops frames.


Clare & Peter
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midar
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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by midar »

I'm trying to photograph the sun using SharpCap Pro software. I have purchased the factory Airylab Solar Scintillation Monitor and would like to use it in my script I use to capture the sun. I have an output from the COM port :

Code: Select all

B0.77$
A14.29$
C2.49$
I assume that the A value is the immediate seeing value. What do the B and C values mean ?
Thank you for your answer.


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Re: First use of our DIY SSM 25 January 2023

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Where have you been Clare & Peter? I have not seen you two online in quite a while. I hope you two are ok.

James.


Lunt 8x32 SUNoculars
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces

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