ZWO ASI 533MM for solar (Ha) imaging???

[Merlin66]

Is anyone using the ASI 533MM for solar imaging?
What's the feedback?
Does the ASI 533 suffer from the same Ha artefacts as the ol' ASI 183???

[thesmiths]

In my recent post on the discontinuation of the ASI1600MM viewtopic.php?t=39659, I mentioned the ASI533MM. My basis for thinking this was a good successor camera was the series of images from Peter Ward in Sydney, who has been using a QHY533M since around November 2022:

search.php?author_id=966&sr=posts

The QHY and ZWO seem to use the same Sony IMX533 chip. The QHY is cooled, while the ZWO comes in cooled and uncooled versions.

Peter is using double-stacked front-mounted etalons, which must give a pretty narrow bandwidth, so is likely a good test.

I doubt that the cooling is really necessary for strictly solar use. I've noticed that more modern camera sensors actually stay cooler (this might be the sensor but could also be more efficient support electronics).

Also, while the ASI1600MM cooled version could function without an external power supply, the newer cooled ZWO cameras will not be recognised by the computer without the external power source attached.

I've heard some people complain about the 1-inch square sensor with regards to deep sky imaging. But for solar and lunar, a square sensor actually makes more sense.

[Merlin66]

Doug,
Thanks for that, overlooked Peter....
I'm assuming the electronics are very similar between the ZWO and the QHY cameras.
Ken

[thesmiths]

While quantum efficiency is not so critical for solar imaging, the old 1600MM is about 40% efficient, while the newer sensors like the 533MM are about 50% efficient at 650nm (based on charts I've seen by C. Buil).

[Merlin66]

The problem was the artefacts seen with the ASI 183mm camera, and whether or not these would be an issue with the ASI 533.
I think Peter's image may suggest they are not an issue!
Ken

[pupak]

I use Player One Saturn with IMX533M. Ideal for solar photography, it is light and has an adjustable chip tilt.
It works reliably in all programs.

[Merlin66]

Are you seeing any artefacts on narrow band H alpha imagining????

[thesmiths]

The Player One Saturn-M SQR version looks really good for solar in a number of ways. For example, the built-in tilting mechanism and the (optional) external fan cooler. See the nice result below, taken from the Player One website. My conclusion is the Sony IMX533 chip is good for solar.

Jean Pierre Brahic, 230MM refractor + Solar SPectrum 0.3A + Saturn-M SQR camera

Solar-activity-Jean-Pierre-Brahic-230MM-refractor-Solar-SPectrum-0.3A-Saturn-M-SQR-camera-scaled.jpg (1.01 MiB) Viewed 3903 times

[christian viladrich]

Player One camera with the IMX533 is faster in term of fps compared to the ZWO equivalent. I don't know the reason why.
This is a big plus for the Player One.

[pupak]

Player One camera with the IMX533 is faster in term of fps compared to the ZWO equivalent. I don't know the reason why.
This is a big plus for the Player One.

I owned the QHY533M and the Player One Saturn M at the same time for a short time, so I did a comparison and both cameras had the same FPS at all resolutions. Only QHY was more sensitive to the quality and length of the USB cable. With a longer cable, the FPS went down quickly at 9 MP.

[thesmiths]

Player One camera with the IMX533 is faster in term of fps compared to the ZWO equivalent. I don't know the reason why.

The Player One planetary cameras now all have on-board DDR3 memory. That might be the reason. ZWO typically only puts this on their DSO cameras. Player One claims:

256M DDR3 Cache

Player One Astronomy cameras are the first one who adopts the DDR3 cache in all planetary cameras in the world! It helps stabilize and secure data transmission, it effectively avoids frame dropping and greatly reduces readout noise.

With the DDR3 cache, the camera does not have high demands on computing needs any longer, it will still has excellent performance even if it is connected to a USB 2.0 port.

[christian viladrich]

I owned the QHY533M and the Player One Saturn M at the same time for a short time, so I did a comparison and both cameras had the same FPS at all resolutions. Only QHY was more sensitive to the quality and length of the USB cable. With a longer cable, the FPS went down quickly at 9 MP.

This is good to know. So the "issue" is only with the ZWO camera.

BTW, I've found a very good 7.5 m USB3 active extension with no fps drop.

https://www.amazon.fr/MutecPower-30m-C% ... PSUTA?th=1

[thesmiths]

With regards to Player One: I noticed that their new APS-C size cooled camera, the Poseidon-M Pro, has a USB-C plug and says the cable is USB 3.2 standard (rather than USB 3.0). This new camera competes with the ZWO 2600MM (and one from QHY). Player One also puts double the DDR3 memory on-camera than their competitors (512MB vs 256MB). It looks like their data download times might be quicker.

I've thought for awhile that USB-C is they way to go for future cameras so nice to see one manufacturer is moving in that direction. I think USB-C can also deliver more current as well as higher speeds.

[Dennis]

With regards to Player One: I noticed that their new APS-C size cooled camera, the Poseidon-M Pro, has a USB-C plug and says the cable is USB 3.2 standard (rather than USB 3.0). This new camera competes with the ZWO 2600MM (and one from QHY). Player One also puts double the DDR3 memory on-camera than their competitors (512MB vs 256MB). It looks like their data download times might be quicker.

I've thought for awhile that USB-C is they way to go for future cameras so nice to see one manufacturer is moving in that direction. I think USB-C can also deliver more current as well as higher speeds.

Thats interesting, could you send me the link to the statement with usb 3.2? Couldnt find it.

[thesmiths]

could you send me the link to the statement with USB 3.2? Couldn't find it.

The Player One site is a little weak on specs (and they don't seem to have online manuals for specific cameras either). I'm guessing about the USB 3.2 from the following graphic (see item 7):

Poseidon-M Pro

Poseidon-package-list1.jpg (361.5 KiB) Viewed 3783 times

I also looked at this graphic from Kingston:

USB3 standards

usb3.JPG (44.65 KiB) Viewed 3783 times

I'm assuming that the reason they include a USB-C to USB-3.2 cable is that the interface supports this. I could be wrong about that. There are some other references to USB-3.0 on the website but who knows what marketing people write. Even if the output is not USB-3.2 currently, at least they are on the path towards it by including the right connectors and cables. Maybe someone can write to their technical support and get confirmation.

[Dennis]

could you send me the link to the statement with USB 3.2? Couldn't find it.

The Player One site is a little weak on specs (and they don't seem to have online manuals for specific cameras either). I'm guessing about the USB 3.2 from the following graphic (see item 7):

I also looked at this graphic from Kingston:

usb3.JPG


I'm assuming that the reason they include a USB-C to USB-3.2 cable is that the interface supports this. I could be wrong about that. There are some other references to USB-3.0 on the website but who knows what marketing people write. Even if the output is not USB-3.2 currently, at least they are on the path towards it by including the right connectors and cables. Maybe someone can write to their technical support and get confirmation.

Thanks. Yes the cable seems to support it, would be really nice if things would start to go in the usb3.2 direction.
The camera itself is stated with only usb3.0 capabilities on the player one website.

[Merlin66]

OK,
The QHY533M has a 1Gb DDR3 but only available as a cooled camera (astro imaging?!) at us$1159
The ASI 533M has 256Mb DDR3 at us$799
The Player One 533M has 256Mb DDR3 at us$799 (extra us$50 ) for the air cooler.

Pays your money, make a choice...........
(I may just stick with the ASI 1600MM - works for me)

[OlegLviv]

I have 432mm but only 1.7MP and all bad news...
432mm global+
432mm EQ better+
432mm 9mk+
432mm 8bit 126fps 12bit 106fps+

I think 533mm only for many Megapixels and exactly big resolution and all...

[thesmiths]

The QHY533M has a 1Gb DDR3 but only available as a cooled camera at us$1159
The ASI 533M has 256Mb DDR3 at us$799
The Player One 533M has 256Mb DDR3 at us$799 (extra us$50) for the air cooler.

I've seen a few people get mislead by specs for megabits (Mb) and megabytes (MB) (one byte = 8 bits). So worth being precise about the usage.

The QHY533M is cooled only and has 1 GByte = 1000 MB DDR3. The weight is 845g (very heavy!).

The ASI 533MM Pro is cooled and has 256 MB DDR3. The weight is 470g (heavy).

The ASI 533MM is uncooled and has 256 MB (which they also refer to as 2 Gbit). The weight is 129g (much lighter!).

The Player One Saturn-M has 256 MB DDR3. The uncooled version is 160g (still quite light). I could not find a spec for the weight of the optional air cooler but I'm guessing it is about the same weight as the camera.

[Dennis]

Looks like the rolling shutter is not a problem for solar imaging with this cam?

[pupak]

Today I used the Saturn M to test the Vixen 90/F15. Shot in BIN1 on F30.

[thesmiths]

would be really nice if things would start to go in the usb3.2 direction.

I just noticed that the newest little camera from QHY, the QHY5III200M, comes with a "USB 3.2 Gen1 Type C Interface". They say,

The new QHY5III (Ver.2) series cameras all use the USB3.2 Gen1 Type-C interface. Compared to the USB3.0 Type-B interface used in the previous generation, the Type-C interface has a longer life and is more flexible.

But it seems again that it's more for the design of the cable connection than to increase the data speed. From the picture on the website, it seems to be running at USB3.0 speed:

USB 3.2 Gen1 Type C Interface

20221013623.png (13.72 KiB) Viewed 3578 times

[Petrus]

I am the happy owner of the Saturn-M camera, no artifacts or other problems with solar imaging
Square chip is great and for my smaller scopes such as Lunt60 and TS 80ED, I can get full disk even with a 2x Barlow lens. Looking forward to see what it can offer this season with the Sun.

[Dennis]

I am the happy owner of the Saturn-M camera, no artifacts or other problems with solar imaging
Square chip is great and for my smaller scopes such as Lunt60 and TS 80ED, I can get full disk even with a 2x Barlow lens. Looking forward to see what it can offer this season with the Sun.

But one downside is the low QE @ 650nm (~57%), thats why im still not 100% convinced.. the imx432 has ~77% there.
Guess i stick to my imx432.

[Petrus]

This is a very good point Dennis! I have this camera also, will be nice to see how they all work with different setups with different results this summer.

[OlegLviv]

QE @ 650nm (~57%), thats why im still not 100% convinced.. the imx432 has ~77% there.
Guess i stick to my imx432 me too and 533 not global........