Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

We have also seen an excellent talk by Tom Berger. It would be super interesting to have him present specifically on prominences and filaments._Averton
True that!! I agree.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by eroel »

Hi Jim:
Thanks for the interesting information, images and animations.
Best regards.
Eric.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Warren. Indeed, a well formed plume is beginning to rise. Not seeing the bubble that produced the plume indicates the prominence is on the far side of the the limb. A well formed bubble cavity is clearly recorded as well, and down flow plasma build up can be seen at top right of the bubble. This is excellent! Bravo!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by Montana »

These are absolutely incredible and certainly a formation needing studying :bow :hamster:

Can I add this thread to the collection viewtopic.php?p=285093&hilit=bubble+andy+devey#p285093

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

Not sure about this one from today. Only 15 minutes in time, but it appears there may be two plumes, one on the left of the main prom and one in the middle that I might have caught after they formed, but not positive. Seeing was horrendous so not the best.

ImageSE-Limb-Animation-3-8-2023 by Rigel123, on Flickr


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Not sure about this one from today. Only 15 minutes in time, but it appears there may be two plumes, one on the left of the main prom and one in the middle that I might have caught after they formed, but not positive. Seeing was horrendous so not the best.

There certainly appear to be two rising plumes as you describe. Is this shot with your double stack system?


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Montana wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:26 pm These are absolutely incredible and certainly a formation needing studying :bow :hamster:

Can I add this thread to the collection viewtopic.php?p=285093&hilit=bubble+andy+devey#p285093

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Oh, yes. Seems to be interest in the subject. Cool.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

oriolestation wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:42 pm Not sure about this one from today. Only 15 minutes in time, but it appears there may be two plumes, one on the left of the main prom and one in the middle that I might have caught after they formed, but not positive. Seeing was horrendous so not the best.

There certainly appear to be two rising plumes as you describe. Is this shot with your double stack system?
Yes, that is with the Lunt LS60T DS. When I saw the prom I thought it might be a likely candidate but was really skeptical that my 15 minute window would catch anything!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Image

Image


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I am beginning to realize, many of the dark areas we see in prominences are low density hot plasma! Not true voids at all. I will certainly look closer at prominences in the future and use my SMII90 to image them!

People here like Warren and Martin Symonds who do animations will have the most to contribute.

This is a really interesting topic.

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

oriolestation wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:11 am Image

Image
That has to be a textbook example of the formation of a plume!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

And Paul has posted a grand example of bubbles and dark plumes in another post!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Solar Powered Lava Lamp

Image


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

It does resemble a Lava Lamp!! :lol:


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by Carbon60 »

Very interesting, Jim. Thank you for presenting a beautifully detailed set of image sequences. Fascinating work.

Just a comment about things being visible, or not, we have to remember that we are observing at a very narrow bandwidth, so if the object is not emitting on the Ha line, then we will not see it. I have no idea what the bubbles are, but if they are hotter plasma they could appear dark in Ha for this reason, but could also appear bright if observed at some other higher energy, shorter wavelength. It depends on the temperature of the material within the bubbles. I’m curious to know if there’s any evidence of ‘hot’ emission bubbles from satellite images (SDO, Parker, Solar Orbiter etc). I haven’t read any of the reference material on this, so I don’t know what supporting evidence for hot bubbles has been presented. Maybe this has already been considered.

Whatever the answer is, it’s a fascinating subject.

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

Carbon60 wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:45 am Very interesting, Jim. Thank you for presenting a beautifully detailed set of image sequences. Fascinating work.

Just a comment about things being visible, or not, we have to remember that we are observing at a very narrow bandwidth, so if the object is not emitting on the Ha line, then we will not see it. I have no idea what the bubbles are, but if they are hotter plasma they could appear dark in Ha for this reason, but could also appear bright if observed at some other higher energy, shorter wavelength. It depends on the temperature of the material within the bubbles. I’m curious to know if there’s any evidence of ‘hot’ emission bubbles from satellite images (SDO, Parker, Solar Orbiter etc). I haven’t read any of the reference material on this, so I don’t know what supporting evidence for hot bubbles has been presented. Maybe this has already been considered.

Whatever the answer is, it’s a fascinating subject.

Stu.
This could add to the challenge for those with good CaK setups to see if they can catch any bubbles/plumes to compare to those we see in Ha.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Carbon60 wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:45 am Very interesting, Jim. Thank you for presenting a beautifully detailed set of image sequences. Fascinating work.

Just a comment about things being visible, or not, we have to remember that we are observing at a very narrow bandwidth, so if the object is not emitting on the Ha line, then we will not see it. I have no idea what the bubbles are, but if they are hotter plasma they could appear dark in Ha for this reason, but could also appear bright if observed at some other higher energy, shorter wavelength. It depends on the temperature of the material within the bubbles. I’m curious to know if there’s any evidence of ‘hot’ emission bubbles from satellite images (SDO, Parker, Solar Orbiter etc). I haven’t read any of the reference material on this, so I don’t know what supporting evidence for hot bubbles has been presented. Maybe this has already been considered.

Whatever the answer is, it’s a fascinating subject.

Stu.
This paper by Berger addresses the bubbles being dark due to lower density despite high temperature, not unlike the dark corona background sky behind bright prominences on the limb.

Quiescent Prominence Dynamics Observed With The Hinode Solar Optical Telesocpe. I. Turbulent Upflow Plumes Thomas E. Berger, et al.
The Astronomical Journal, 716:1288-1307, 2010 June 20


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Carbon60 wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:45 am Very interesting, Jim. Thank you for presenting a beautifully detailed set of image sequences. Fascinating work.

Just a comment about things being visible, or not, we have to remember that we are observing at a very narrow bandwidth, so if the object is not emitting on the Ha line, then we will not see it. I have no idea what the bubbles are, but if they are hotter plasma they could appear dark in Ha for this reason, but could also appear bright if observed at some other higher energy, shorter wavelength. It depends on the temperature of the material within the bubbles. I’m curious to know if there’s any evidence of ‘hot’ emission bubbles from satellite images (SDO, Parker, Solar Orbiter etc). I haven’t read any of the reference material on this, so I don’t know what supporting evidence for hot bubbles has been presented. Maybe this has already been considered.

Whatever the answer is, it’s a fascinating subject.

Stu.
Stu
All of the researchers I'm aware of studying bubble voids and dark plumes are using data from the Hinode/SOT, the New Vacuum Solar Telescope (NVST) or the Solar Dynamic Observatory (SDO). The NVST researchers in China are the only ones I'm aware of utilizing a ground based instrument, though, I suspect Big Bear Solar Observatory and the Swedish 1 meter scope, and probably a few others are being utilized as well.

The Hinode/SOT, both H-alpha and Ca II. The SDO EUV images are with the Atmospheric Imaging Assembly typically at 171A and 193A, and at those wavelengths the material in the bubbles and plumes are in emission, and brighter than the coronal atmosphere above the prominence (!!!).

Fascinating stuff, indeed!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I would love to see very high resolution images in the 656.28nm Ha wavelength. Imagine very high resolution prominences without the effects of atmospheric seeing. I don't even see enough very high resolution images from the large ground based professional telescopes in Ha and have never seen any from space to the best of my memory. SDO is great but except for continuum it only images in the deep ultraviolet range.

I see Ha images here on SolarChat better than ANY professional image I have seen. White light is different. I have seen some astounding ones of the photosphere done by professionals. I am waiting on the 4 meter DKIST team to publish more. Surely 4 meters of solar aperture can put us to shame in ANY wavelength that gets through out planet's atmosphere.

Hmm...

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by Montana »

This is an absolutely fascinating subject and I may move this post to the prominences section later so as not to lose this precious info (easier to find). I will sort out that prominences section at some point but not until May when I have more time :)
Prominences are really exciting!

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:46 am I would love to see very high resolution images in the 656.28nm Ha wavelength. Imagine very high resolution prominences without the effects of atmospheric seeing. I don't even see enough very high resolution images from the large ground based professional telescopes in Ha and have never seen any from space to the best of my memory. SDO is great but except for continuum it only images in the deep ultraviolet range.

I see Ha images here on SolarChat better than ANY professional image I have seen. White light is different. I have seen some astounding ones of the photosphere done by professionals. I am waiting on the 4 meter DKIST team to publish more. Surely 4 meters of solar aperture can put us to shame in ANY wavelength that gets through out planet's atmosphere.

Hmm...

James
Too true. The vast majority of satellite base solar observing is done with shorter wavelength systems. Most of the Hinode/SOT stuff that I have seen are recorded at the Ca H line 3960A, the results are higher resolution than images at H-alpha at 6563A.

This Hinode/SOT image of the solar limb is recorded at Ca H wavelength. Incredibly fine structure resolved.

Image


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Jim,
Where are you getting your Hinode/SOT data? What website?

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:23 am Jim,
Where are you getting your Hinode/SOT data? What website?

James.
Mostly from published papers. But they do have a web site.

https://hinode.nao.ac.jp/en/intro/


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

This is a fantastic movie by Hinode/SOT of a polar crown prominence in Ca H

https://science.nasa.gov/files/atoms/fi ... _short.mov

Woot!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by Averton »

oriolestation wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:09 am This is a fantastic movie by Hinode/SOT of a polar crown prominence in Ca H

https://science.nasa.gov/files/atoms/fi ... _short.mov

Woot!
Wow, exceptional - absolutely fascinating to watch!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

oriolestation wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:09 am This is a fantastic movie by Hinode/SOT of a polar crown prominence in Ca H

https://science.nasa.gov/files/atoms/fi ... _short.mov

Woot!
WoW, it looks almost liquid.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

In this brief movie of a quiescent prominence, the bright build up of down flow plasma can be seen on the top of the bubble void. The bubble void was quite stable and did not produce dark rising plumes during the period I was imaging.

Image


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

Figured I would throw this one in from 3/30/2023 showing a developing bubble in the prom on the left (NW limb has been rotated). I should have recorded longer to see if that bubble popped!

ImageSW-Limb-Proms-Animation-3-30-2023 by Rigel123, on Flickr


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Nicely shows how the down flow builds up on top of the bubble. Excellent.

Is this with your double stack system?


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

oriolestation wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:51 pm Nicely shows how the down flow builds up on top of the bubble. Excellent.

Is this with your double stack system?
Thanks Jim, I thought of you as soon as I saw what I caught! Yes, that is with the Lunt LS60T DS using an ASI174MM and a Meade 3X TeleXtender


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

A complicated bubble void on the north end of the prominence. Wish the seeing had been better (only rare moments of steady air), would have liked to follow the evolution of that bubble....

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

These are really quite nice views of it though.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by Montana »

That would have made a great animation :hamster: :hamster: :bow :bow

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

Just came upon this animation from 7/4/2020 which shows a very large “bubble” near the top of this large prom that quickly disappears.

Image


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by EdAstle »

I've just read this fascinating thread.

Alas the NASA movie Jim linked to on page 2 no longer exists, but the paper Jim cited contains the videos and much analysis.

"Quiescent Prominence Dynamics Observed with the Hinode Solar Optical Telescope. II. Prominence Bubble Boundary Layer Characteristics and the Onset of a Coupled Kelvin–Helmholtz Rayleigh–Taylor Instability"


https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3 ... a95b6bib63

Scroll to "2. Prominence Bubble Expansion and Boundary Layer Characteristics".
There you'll find a video from 2007 spanning 16:00 UT to almost 21:00 UT.
Mesmerizing.

In the right hands that double limb is spectacular.
I've been brainwashed into thinking it's a bad thing!

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

This is a nice article. I'll certainly read it in its entirety when I get a chance.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Some recent results on a very small quiescent prominence on the north polar limb.

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Image

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

rigel123 wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:58 am Just came upon this animation from 7/4/2020 which shows a very large “bubble” near the top of this large prom that quickly disappears.

Image
I missed your post earlier. This is fantastic. Do you recall where on the limb this was located?

Bravo! Bravo!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

oriolestation wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:22 pm
rigel123 wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:58 am Just came upon this animation from 7/4/2020 which shows a very large “bubble” near the top of this large prom that quickly disappears.

Image
I missed your post earlier. This is fantastic. Do you recall where on the limb this was located?

Bravo! Bravo!
That was the SE limb, I believe. As it does not look like I rotated it I’m pretty sure it is presented how I imaged it and I orient my camera for captures based on GONG images.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Amazing how quickly the bubble void on the northern end of the prom breaks up and down flows. Excellent.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

A very small quiescent prominence on the polar south east limb. Dark bubble voids at the base of the prominence have been disrupted and partially deflated. A number of dark plumes are visible rising up from the prominence base.

Image

Image

Image


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Very nice resolution on such small proms! Solar dynamics in action.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by Montana »

Terrific capture :bow :bow :bow

Alexandra


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