Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

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Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

From the very start of my solar observing interest has been in viewing and imaging solar prominences. To this end I acquired a Daystar 0.8A bandpass H-alpha filter for my 4 inch refractor, the broad bandwidth being well suited for prominence observing. Any, and all solar prominences are of interest, but I am particularly keen on observing the evolution of quiescent prominences.

Of particular interest are high latitude prominences with classic vertical sheet filament threads and the curious bubble voids that can often be observed at the prominence base. As these bubble voids develop they often go through periods of growth, then disruption leading to partial or total collapse, then amazingly will often re-inflate and repeat the cycle. One result of the bubble disruption and collapse are the production of dark plumes that will rapidly rise up between the filament threads, some reaching the top of the filament and disappearing from view. According to the papers I have read, the bubble voids contain coronal material that is both less dense and hotter than the prominence filament threads, explaining, at least in part, the buoyant behavior of both the bubble and rising plumes. Another interesting feature is the accumulation at the top of the bubble from down flow plasma. The accumulations can often be seen to slide off the top and down the side of the bubble to the base of the prominence.

My 0.8A filter provides a two dimensional view of the prominence on the solar limb, not unlike that produced by a solar coronagraph. I am now interested to see if these bubbles and plumes can be similarly viewed and imaged with very narrow bandpass scopes that show the prominence on both the limb and disk. Many in this forum have excellent extreme narrow band H-alpha filters or telescopes with double stacked etalons, I am suggesting that you look through your collections of images for the bubble voids and plumes, and in particular, in the future shoot sequences or time-lapse videos of same. A challenge, if you will….

I have posted some images of bubble voids and plumes. The open space between foot points of ‘Hedge Row’ prominences should not be mistaken for the bubble voids.

An excellent overview by Thomas E. Berger and associates of the bubble voids and plumes is this Astronomical Journal paper.

Quiescent Prominence Dynamics Observed With The Hinode Solar Optical Telesocpe. I. Turbulent Upflow Plumes Thomas E. Berger, et al.
The Astronomical Journal, 716:1288-1307, 2010 June 20

There are many other more recent papers by various researchers looking at the these curious prominence phenomena in the NASA Astrophysical Data system, or, simple Googling will hit a number of papers.

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Last edited by oriolestation on Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Image


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

These are excellent Jim! I know I have some animations that have shown plumes but I’ll check to see if I included the disk in any of them.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

rigel123 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:34 am These are excellent Jim! I know I have some animations that have shown plumes but I’ll check to see if I included the disk in any of them.
That'd be cool. Thanks.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by JohnW »

Interesting report Jim - well done. Regards, John W.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

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Image


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

WoW, you have done some serious research on prominences. I will study these images you have posted. I too love to image and view prominences visually and my SolarMax II 90 does really well with them. Some of our skilled animation imagers should also be a big help on your research.

We have discussed the dark bubbles rising in prominences before, wondering whether they are true voids or plasma bubbles. One thing I don't understand is if they are hotter plasma bubbles how can they be darker than the surrounding material? Darker usually means colder. But maybe they are less dense and emit little light? Anything hotter usually rises and these do. Less dense plasma should too. Some in your images look like fluid rising in a Lava Lamp!

Keep up with this and keep posting. I'll keep my eye to the scope and to my camera.

Two thumbs up!!

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by marktownley »

An excellent informative thread with lots of lovely images Jim, thanks for sharing!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by yltansg »

Hi Jim,

Unbelievable Proms with a 4" refractor. I have not seen anything like that with a 4" refractor.

Great job!

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by Dennis »

This is really great stuff, very nicely done.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by ffellah »

Very interesting , thank you ! Awesome images and animation.

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by Martin_S »

A great post Jim , you are getting outstanding results with a 4" scope.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

oriolestation wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:17 am
rigel123 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:34 am These are excellent Jim! I know I have some animations that have shown plumes but I’ll check to see if I included the disk in any of them.
That'd be cool. Thanks.
Well shoot, the best one I caught did not include the surface and it got cut short just as the plume was rising! I'll keep my eyes out for additional opportunities for some quiescent proms.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:06 am WoW, you have done some serious research on prominences. I will study these images you have posted. I too love to image and view prominences visually and my SolarMax II 90 does really well with them. Some of our skilled animation imagers should also be a big help on your research.

We have discussed the dark bubbles rising in prominences before, wondering whether they are true voids or plasma bubbles. One thing I don't understand is if they are hotter plasma bubbles how can they be darker than the surrounding material? Darker usually means colder. But maybe they are less dense and emit little light? Anything hotter usually rises and these do. Less dense plasma should too. Some in your images look like fluid rising in a Lava Lamp!

Keep up with this and keep posting. I'll keep my eye to the scope and to my camera.

Two thumbs up!!

James
Hello James.

Thanks for the thumbs up on this project.

Lower density apparently is the reason the hotter plasma does not record in emission, not unlike the hot corona that appears as a dark background behind the cooler prominence. I'm still not clear how the coronal temperature plasma finds its way into the base of the prominence. My reading suggest the hot plasma finds its way up through the photosphere to create the bubble, but I don't pretend to understand the electromagnetic complexities that exist in and around the filament trough at the base of the prominence. So much to see and learn!
Last edited by oriolestation on Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by robert »

Beautifully done, superb images
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

There were two 'ears' on the sun today with very dark bubbles in them visually.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

oriolestation wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:28 pm
DeepSolar64 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:06 am WoW, you have done some serious research on prominences. I will study these images you have posted. I too love to image and view prominences visually and my SolarMax II 90 does really well with them. Some of our skilled animation imagers should also be a big help on your research.

We have discussed the dark bubbles rising in prominences before, wondering whether they are true voids or plasma bubbles. One thing I don't understand is if they are hotter plasma bubbles how can they be darker than the surrounding material? Darker usually means colder. But maybe they are less dense and emit little light? Anything hotter usually rises and these do. Less dense plasma should too. Some in your images look like fluid rising in a Lava Lamp!

Keep up with this and keep posting. I'll keep my eye to the scope and to my camera.

Two thumbs up!!

James
Hello James.

Thanks for the thumbs up on this project.

Lower density apparently is the reason the hotter plasma does not record in emission, not unlike the hot corona that appears as a dark background behind the cooler prominence. I'm still not clear how the coronal temperature plasma finds its way into the base of the prominence. My reading suggest the hot plasma finds its way up through the photosphere to create the bubble, but I don't pretend to understand the electromagnetic complexities that exist in the and around the filament trough at the base of the prominence. So much to see and learn!

You are welcome.

The corona being hotter than the chromosphere and invisible because of it's low density was a good comparison to why these hotter bubbles appear dark. Post any professional info you find relevant to these dark bubbles!

I don't think the professionals entirely understand all the electromagnetic complexities of the Sun either. You have obviously good seeing and a very capable scope. I will certainly follow your research on this.

James


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by KMH »

That's fascinating - I was not aware of that phenomenon. And great images/animation to go along with the discussion! I'll take a closer look at my prom images to see if I can find anything like that.
Thanks for sharing,
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I need to start imaging prominences a bit more in monochrome. These details may be more obvious without the added color.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by MAURITS »

Very interesting Jim.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by arnedanielsen »

Fabulous prom images Jim!

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by nicspenceryork »

Loved seeing these Jim,
Thanks
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by Averton »

Both interesting and impressive Jim.
We have been reading about different prominence types and formation.
One of the articles mentioned voids but the accompanying images were impossible to decipher. Your images have clearly shown what the authors were describing - thanks!
We have also seen an excellent talk by Tom Berger. It would be super interesting to have him present specifically on prominences and filaments.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

This was the one I found from 2018 where I just caught the start of a nice plume at the very end of the animation. Click on the Astrobin link below.

Image


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by eroel »

Hi Jim.
Thanks for the information and the images and animations shown.
Bes regards.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

We have also seen an excellent talk by Tom Berger. It would be super interesting to have him present specifically on prominences and filaments._Averton
True that!! I agree.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by eroel »

Hi Jim:
Thanks for the interesting information, images and animations.
Best regards.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Warren. Indeed, a well formed plume is beginning to rise. Not seeing the bubble that produced the plume indicates the prominence is on the far side of the the limb. A well formed bubble cavity is clearly recorded as well, and down flow plasma build up can be seen at top right of the bubble. This is excellent! Bravo!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by Montana »

These are absolutely incredible and certainly a formation needing studying :bow :hamster:

Can I add this thread to the collection viewtopic.php?p=285093&hilit=bubble+andy+devey#p285093

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

Not sure about this one from today. Only 15 minutes in time, but it appears there may be two plumes, one on the left of the main prom and one in the middle that I might have caught after they formed, but not positive. Seeing was horrendous so not the best.

ImageSE-Limb-Animation-3-8-2023 by Rigel123, on Flickr


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Not sure about this one from today. Only 15 minutes in time, but it appears there may be two plumes, one on the left of the main prom and one in the middle that I might have caught after they formed, but not positive. Seeing was horrendous so not the best.

There certainly appear to be two rising plumes as you describe. Is this shot with your double stack system?


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Montana wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:26 pm These are absolutely incredible and certainly a formation needing studying :bow :hamster:

Can I add this thread to the collection viewtopic.php?p=285093&hilit=bubble+andy+devey#p285093

Alexandra
Oh, yes. Seems to be interest in the subject. Cool.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

oriolestation wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:42 pm Not sure about this one from today. Only 15 minutes in time, but it appears there may be two plumes, one on the left of the main prom and one in the middle that I might have caught after they formed, but not positive. Seeing was horrendous so not the best.

There certainly appear to be two rising plumes as you describe. Is this shot with your double stack system?
Yes, that is with the Lunt LS60T DS. When I saw the prom I thought it might be a likely candidate but was really skeptical that my 15 minute window would catch anything!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Image

Image


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I am beginning to realize, many of the dark areas we see in prominences are low density hot plasma! Not true voids at all. I will certainly look closer at prominences in the future and use my SMII90 to image them!

People here like Warren and Martin Symonds who do animations will have the most to contribute.

This is a really interesting topic.

James


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

oriolestation wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:11 am Image

Image
That has to be a textbook example of the formation of a plume!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

And Paul has posted a grand example of bubbles and dark plumes in another post!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Solar Powered Lava Lamp

Image


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

It does resemble a Lava Lamp!! :lol:


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by Carbon60 »

Very interesting, Jim. Thank you for presenting a beautifully detailed set of image sequences. Fascinating work.

Just a comment about things being visible, or not, we have to remember that we are observing at a very narrow bandwidth, so if the object is not emitting on the Ha line, then we will not see it. I have no idea what the bubbles are, but if they are hotter plasma they could appear dark in Ha for this reason, but could also appear bright if observed at some other higher energy, shorter wavelength. It depends on the temperature of the material within the bubbles. I’m curious to know if there’s any evidence of ‘hot’ emission bubbles from satellite images (SDO, Parker, Solar Orbiter etc). I haven’t read any of the reference material on this, so I don’t know what supporting evidence for hot bubbles has been presented. Maybe this has already been considered.

Whatever the answer is, it’s a fascinating subject.

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by rigel123 »

Carbon60 wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:45 am Very interesting, Jim. Thank you for presenting a beautifully detailed set of image sequences. Fascinating work.

Just a comment about things being visible, or not, we have to remember that we are observing at a very narrow bandwidth, so if the object is not emitting on the Ha line, then we will not see it. I have no idea what the bubbles are, but if they are hotter plasma they could appear dark in Ha for this reason, but could also appear bright if observed at some other higher energy, shorter wavelength. It depends on the temperature of the material within the bubbles. I’m curious to know if there’s any evidence of ‘hot’ emission bubbles from satellite images (SDO, Parker, Solar Orbiter etc). I haven’t read any of the reference material on this, so I don’t know what supporting evidence for hot bubbles has been presented. Maybe this has already been considered.

Whatever the answer is, it’s a fascinating subject.

Stu.
This could add to the challenge for those with good CaK setups to see if they can catch any bubbles/plumes to compare to those we see in Ha.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Carbon60 wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:45 am Very interesting, Jim. Thank you for presenting a beautifully detailed set of image sequences. Fascinating work.

Just a comment about things being visible, or not, we have to remember that we are observing at a very narrow bandwidth, so if the object is not emitting on the Ha line, then we will not see it. I have no idea what the bubbles are, but if they are hotter plasma they could appear dark in Ha for this reason, but could also appear bright if observed at some other higher energy, shorter wavelength. It depends on the temperature of the material within the bubbles. I’m curious to know if there’s any evidence of ‘hot’ emission bubbles from satellite images (SDO, Parker, Solar Orbiter etc). I haven’t read any of the reference material on this, so I don’t know what supporting evidence for hot bubbles has been presented. Maybe this has already been considered.

Whatever the answer is, it’s a fascinating subject.

Stu.
This paper by Berger addresses the bubbles being dark due to lower density despite high temperature, not unlike the dark corona background sky behind bright prominences on the limb.

Quiescent Prominence Dynamics Observed With The Hinode Solar Optical Telesocpe. I. Turbulent Upflow Plumes Thomas E. Berger, et al.
The Astronomical Journal, 716:1288-1307, 2010 June 20


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

Carbon60 wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:45 am Very interesting, Jim. Thank you for presenting a beautifully detailed set of image sequences. Fascinating work.

Just a comment about things being visible, or not, we have to remember that we are observing at a very narrow bandwidth, so if the object is not emitting on the Ha line, then we will not see it. I have no idea what the bubbles are, but if they are hotter plasma they could appear dark in Ha for this reason, but could also appear bright if observed at some other higher energy, shorter wavelength. It depends on the temperature of the material within the bubbles. I’m curious to know if there’s any evidence of ‘hot’ emission bubbles from satellite images (SDO, Parker, Solar Orbiter etc). I haven’t read any of the reference material on this, so I don’t know what supporting evidence for hot bubbles has been presented. Maybe this has already been considered.

Whatever the answer is, it’s a fascinating subject.

Stu.
Stu
All of the researchers I'm aware of studying bubble voids and dark plumes are using data from the Hinode/SOT, the New Vacuum Solar Telescope (NVST) or the Solar Dynamic Observatory (SDO). The NVST researchers in China are the only ones I'm aware of utilizing a ground based instrument, though, I suspect Big Bear Solar Observatory and the Swedish 1 meter scope, and probably a few others are being utilized as well.

The Hinode/SOT, both H-alpha and Ca II. The SDO EUV images are with the Atmospheric Imaging Assembly typically at 171A and 193A, and at those wavelengths the material in the bubbles and plumes are in emission, and brighter than the coronal atmosphere above the prominence (!!!).

Fascinating stuff, indeed!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I would love to see very high resolution images in the 656.28nm Ha wavelength. Imagine very high resolution prominences without the effects of atmospheric seeing. I don't even see enough very high resolution images from the large ground based professional telescopes in Ha and have never seen any from space to the best of my memory. SDO is great but except for continuum it only images in the deep ultraviolet range.

I see Ha images here on SolarChat better than ANY professional image I have seen. White light is different. I have seen some astounding ones of the photosphere done by professionals. I am waiting on the 4 meter DKIST team to publish more. Surely 4 meters of solar aperture can put us to shame in ANY wavelength that gets through out planet's atmosphere.

Hmm...

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by Montana »

This is an absolutely fascinating subject and I may move this post to the prominences section later so as not to lose this precious info (easier to find). I will sort out that prominences section at some point but not until May when I have more time :)
Prominences are really exciting!

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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:46 am I would love to see very high resolution images in the 656.28nm Ha wavelength. Imagine very high resolution prominences without the effects of atmospheric seeing. I don't even see enough very high resolution images from the large ground based professional telescopes in Ha and have never seen any from space to the best of my memory. SDO is great but except for continuum it only images in the deep ultraviolet range.

I see Ha images here on SolarChat better than ANY professional image I have seen. White light is different. I have seen some astounding ones of the photosphere done by professionals. I am waiting on the 4 meter DKIST team to publish more. Surely 4 meters of solar aperture can put us to shame in ANY wavelength that gets through out planet's atmosphere.

Hmm...

James
Too true. The vast majority of satellite base solar observing is done with shorter wavelength systems. Most of the Hinode/SOT stuff that I have seen are recorded at the Ca H line 3960A, the results are higher resolution than images at H-alpha at 6563A.

This Hinode/SOT image of the solar limb is recorded at Ca H wavelength. Incredibly fine structure resolved.

Image


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Jim,
Where are you getting your Hinode/SOT data? What website?

James.


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:23 am Jim,
Where are you getting your Hinode/SOT data? What website?

James.
Mostly from published papers. But they do have a web site.

https://hinode.nao.ac.jp/en/intro/


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by oriolestation »

This is a fantastic movie by Hinode/SOT of a polar crown prominence in Ca H

https://science.nasa.gov/files/atoms/fi ... _short.mov

Woot!


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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes

Post by Averton »

oriolestation wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:09 am This is a fantastic movie by Hinode/SOT of a polar crown prominence in Ca H

https://science.nasa.gov/files/atoms/fi ... _short.mov

Woot!
Wow, exceptional - absolutely fascinating to watch!


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