True that!! I agree.We have also seen an excellent talk by Tom Berger. It would be super interesting to have him present specifically on prominences and filaments._Averton
Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Hi Jim:
Thanks for the interesting information, images and animations.
Best regards.
Eric.
Thanks for the interesting information, images and animations.
Best regards.
Eric.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Warren. Indeed, a well formed plume is beginning to rise. Not seeing the bubble that produced the plume indicates the prominence is on the far side of the the limb. A well formed bubble cavity is clearly recorded as well, and down flow plasma build up can be seen at top right of the bubble. This is excellent! Bravo!
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
These are absolutely incredible and certainly a formation needing studying
Can I add this thread to the collection viewtopic.php?p=285093&hilit=bubble+andy+devey#p285093
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Can I add this thread to the collection viewtopic.php?p=285093&hilit=bubble+andy+devey#p285093
Alexandra
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Not sure about this one from today. Only 15 minutes in time, but it appears there may be two plumes, one on the left of the main prom and one in the middle that I might have caught after they formed, but not positive. Seeing was horrendous so not the best.
SE-Limb-Animation-3-8-2023 by Rigel123, on Flickr
SE-Limb-Animation-3-8-2023 by Rigel123, on Flickr
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Not sure about this one from today. Only 15 minutes in time, but it appears there may be two plumes, one on the left of the main prom and one in the middle that I might have caught after they formed, but not positive. Seeing was horrendous so not the best.
There certainly appear to be two rising plumes as you describe. Is this shot with your double stack system?
There certainly appear to be two rising plumes as you describe. Is this shot with your double stack system?
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Oh, yes. Seems to be interest in the subject. Cool.Montana wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:26 pm These are absolutely incredible and certainly a formation needing studying
Can I add this thread to the collection viewtopic.php?p=285093&hilit=bubble+andy+devey#p285093
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Yes, that is with the Lunt LS60T DS. When I saw the prom I thought it might be a likely candidate but was really skeptical that my 15 minute window would catch anything!oriolestation wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:42 pm Not sure about this one from today. Only 15 minutes in time, but it appears there may be two plumes, one on the left of the main prom and one in the middle that I might have caught after they formed, but not positive. Seeing was horrendous so not the best.
There certainly appear to be two rising plumes as you describe. Is this shot with your double stack system?
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
I am beginning to realize, many of the dark areas we see in prominences are low density hot plasma! Not true voids at all. I will certainly look closer at prominences in the future and use my SMII90 to image them!
People here like Warren and Martin Symonds who do animations will have the most to contribute.
This is a really interesting topic.
James
People here like Warren and Martin Symonds who do animations will have the most to contribute.
This is a really interesting topic.
James
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
That has to be a textbook example of the formation of a plume!
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
And Paul has posted a grand example of bubbles and dark plumes in another post!
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
It does resemble a Lava Lamp!!
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Very interesting, Jim. Thank you for presenting a beautifully detailed set of image sequences. Fascinating work.
Just a comment about things being visible, or not, we have to remember that we are observing at a very narrow bandwidth, so if the object is not emitting on the Ha line, then we will not see it. I have no idea what the bubbles are, but if they are hotter plasma they could appear dark in Ha for this reason, but could also appear bright if observed at some other higher energy, shorter wavelength. It depends on the temperature of the material within the bubbles. I’m curious to know if there’s any evidence of ‘hot’ emission bubbles from satellite images (SDO, Parker, Solar Orbiter etc). I haven’t read any of the reference material on this, so I don’t know what supporting evidence for hot bubbles has been presented. Maybe this has already been considered.
Whatever the answer is, it’s a fascinating subject.
Stu.
Just a comment about things being visible, or not, we have to remember that we are observing at a very narrow bandwidth, so if the object is not emitting on the Ha line, then we will not see it. I have no idea what the bubbles are, but if they are hotter plasma they could appear dark in Ha for this reason, but could also appear bright if observed at some other higher energy, shorter wavelength. It depends on the temperature of the material within the bubbles. I’m curious to know if there’s any evidence of ‘hot’ emission bubbles from satellite images (SDO, Parker, Solar Orbiter etc). I haven’t read any of the reference material on this, so I don’t know what supporting evidence for hot bubbles has been presented. Maybe this has already been considered.
Whatever the answer is, it’s a fascinating subject.
Stu.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
This could add to the challenge for those with good CaK setups to see if they can catch any bubbles/plumes to compare to those we see in Ha.Carbon60 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:45 am Very interesting, Jim. Thank you for presenting a beautifully detailed set of image sequences. Fascinating work.
Just a comment about things being visible, or not, we have to remember that we are observing at a very narrow bandwidth, so if the object is not emitting on the Ha line, then we will not see it. I have no idea what the bubbles are, but if they are hotter plasma they could appear dark in Ha for this reason, but could also appear bright if observed at some other higher energy, shorter wavelength. It depends on the temperature of the material within the bubbles. I’m curious to know if there’s any evidence of ‘hot’ emission bubbles from satellite images (SDO, Parker, Solar Orbiter etc). I haven’t read any of the reference material on this, so I don’t know what supporting evidence for hot bubbles has been presented. Maybe this has already been considered.
Whatever the answer is, it’s a fascinating subject.
Stu.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
This paper by Berger addresses the bubbles being dark due to lower density despite high temperature, not unlike the dark corona background sky behind bright prominences on the limb.Carbon60 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:45 am Very interesting, Jim. Thank you for presenting a beautifully detailed set of image sequences. Fascinating work.
Just a comment about things being visible, or not, we have to remember that we are observing at a very narrow bandwidth, so if the object is not emitting on the Ha line, then we will not see it. I have no idea what the bubbles are, but if they are hotter plasma they could appear dark in Ha for this reason, but could also appear bright if observed at some other higher energy, shorter wavelength. It depends on the temperature of the material within the bubbles. I’m curious to know if there’s any evidence of ‘hot’ emission bubbles from satellite images (SDO, Parker, Solar Orbiter etc). I haven’t read any of the reference material on this, so I don’t know what supporting evidence for hot bubbles has been presented. Maybe this has already been considered.
Whatever the answer is, it’s a fascinating subject.
Stu.
Quiescent Prominence Dynamics Observed With The Hinode Solar Optical Telesocpe. I. Turbulent Upflow Plumes Thomas E. Berger, et al.
The Astronomical Journal, 716:1288-1307, 2010 June 20
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
StuCarbon60 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:45 am Very interesting, Jim. Thank you for presenting a beautifully detailed set of image sequences. Fascinating work.
Just a comment about things being visible, or not, we have to remember that we are observing at a very narrow bandwidth, so if the object is not emitting on the Ha line, then we will not see it. I have no idea what the bubbles are, but if they are hotter plasma they could appear dark in Ha for this reason, but could also appear bright if observed at some other higher energy, shorter wavelength. It depends on the temperature of the material within the bubbles. I’m curious to know if there’s any evidence of ‘hot’ emission bubbles from satellite images (SDO, Parker, Solar Orbiter etc). I haven’t read any of the reference material on this, so I don’t know what supporting evidence for hot bubbles has been presented. Maybe this has already been considered.
Whatever the answer is, it’s a fascinating subject.
Stu.
All of the researchers I'm aware of studying bubble voids and dark plumes are using data from the Hinode/SOT, the New Vacuum Solar Telescope (NVST) or the Solar Dynamic Observatory (SDO). The NVST researchers in China are the only ones I'm aware of utilizing a ground based instrument, though, I suspect Big Bear Solar Observatory and the Swedish 1 meter scope, and probably a few others are being utilized as well.
The Hinode/SOT, both H-alpha and Ca II. The SDO EUV images are with the Atmospheric Imaging Assembly typically at 171A and 193A, and at those wavelengths the material in the bubbles and plumes are in emission, and brighter than the coronal atmosphere above the prominence (!!!).
Fascinating stuff, indeed!
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
I would love to see very high resolution images in the 656.28nm Ha wavelength. Imagine very high resolution prominences without the effects of atmospheric seeing. I don't even see enough very high resolution images from the large ground based professional telescopes in Ha and have never seen any from space to the best of my memory. SDO is great but except for continuum it only images in the deep ultraviolet range.
I see Ha images here on SolarChat better than ANY professional image I have seen. White light is different. I have seen some astounding ones of the photosphere done by professionals. I am waiting on the 4 meter DKIST team to publish more. Surely 4 meters of solar aperture can put us to shame in ANY wavelength that gets through out planet's atmosphere.
Hmm...
James
I see Ha images here on SolarChat better than ANY professional image I have seen. White light is different. I have seen some astounding ones of the photosphere done by professionals. I am waiting on the 4 meter DKIST team to publish more. Surely 4 meters of solar aperture can put us to shame in ANY wavelength that gets through out planet's atmosphere.
Hmm...
James
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
This is an absolutely fascinating subject and I may move this post to the prominences section later so as not to lose this precious info (easier to find). I will sort out that prominences section at some point but not until May when I have more time
Prominences are really exciting!
Alexandra
Prominences are really exciting!
Alexandra
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Too true. The vast majority of satellite base solar observing is done with shorter wavelength systems. Most of the Hinode/SOT stuff that I have seen are recorded at the Ca H line 3960A, the results are higher resolution than images at H-alpha at 6563A.DeepSolar64 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:46 am I would love to see very high resolution images in the 656.28nm Ha wavelength. Imagine very high resolution prominences without the effects of atmospheric seeing. I don't even see enough very high resolution images from the large ground based professional telescopes in Ha and have never seen any from space to the best of my memory. SDO is great but except for continuum it only images in the deep ultraviolet range.
I see Ha images here on SolarChat better than ANY professional image I have seen. White light is different. I have seen some astounding ones of the photosphere done by professionals. I am waiting on the 4 meter DKIST team to publish more. Surely 4 meters of solar aperture can put us to shame in ANY wavelength that gets through out planet's atmosphere.
Hmm...
James
This Hinode/SOT image of the solar limb is recorded at Ca H wavelength. Incredibly fine structure resolved.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Jim,
Where are you getting your Hinode/SOT data? What website?
James.
Where are you getting your Hinode/SOT data? What website?
James.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Mostly from published papers. But they do have a web site.DeepSolar64 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:23 am Jim,
Where are you getting your Hinode/SOT data? What website?
James.
https://hinode.nao.ac.jp/en/intro/
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
This is a fantastic movie by Hinode/SOT of a polar crown prominence in Ca H
https://science.nasa.gov/files/atoms/fi ... _short.mov
Woot!
https://science.nasa.gov/files/atoms/fi ... _short.mov
Woot!
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Wow, exceptional - absolutely fascinating to watch!oriolestation wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:09 am This is a fantastic movie by Hinode/SOT of a polar crown prominence in Ca H
https://science.nasa.gov/files/atoms/fi ... _short.mov
Woot!
Clare & Peter
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
WoW, it looks almost liquid.oriolestation wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:09 am This is a fantastic movie by Hinode/SOT of a polar crown prominence in Ca H
https://science.nasa.gov/files/atoms/fi ... _short.mov
Woot!
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
In this brief movie of a quiescent prominence, the bright build up of down flow plasma can be seen on the top of the bubble void. The bubble void was quite stable and did not produce dark rising plumes during the period I was imaging.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Figured I would throw this one in from 3/30/2023 showing a developing bubble in the prom on the left (NW limb has been rotated). I should have recorded longer to see if that bubble popped!
SW-Limb-Proms-Animation-3-30-2023 by Rigel123, on Flickr
SW-Limb-Proms-Animation-3-30-2023 by Rigel123, on Flickr
Warren
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Nicely shows how the down flow builds up on top of the bubble. Excellent.
Is this with your double stack system?
Is this with your double stack system?
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Thanks Jim, I thought of you as soon as I saw what I caught! Yes, that is with the Lunt LS60T DS using an ASI174MM and a Meade 3X TeleXtenderoriolestation wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:51 pm Nicely shows how the down flow builds up on top of the bubble. Excellent.
Is this with your double stack system?
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
A complicated bubble void on the north end of the prominence. Wish the seeing had been better (only rare moments of steady air), would have liked to follow the evolution of that bubble....
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
These are really quite nice views of it though.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Just came upon this animation from 7/4/2020 which shows a very large “bubble” near the top of this large prom that quickly disappears.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
I've just read this fascinating thread.
Alas the NASA movie Jim linked to on page 2 no longer exists, but the paper Jim cited contains the videos and much analysis.
"Quiescent Prominence Dynamics Observed with the Hinode Solar Optical Telescope. II. Prominence Bubble Boundary Layer Characteristics and the Onset of a Coupled Kelvin–Helmholtz Rayleigh–Taylor Instability"
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3 ... a95b6bib63
Scroll to "2. Prominence Bubble Expansion and Boundary Layer Characteristics".
There you'll find a video from 2007 spanning 16:00 UT to almost 21:00 UT.
Mesmerizing.
In the right hands that double limb is spectacular.
I've been brainwashed into thinking it's a bad thing!
Cheers,
Ed
Alas the NASA movie Jim linked to on page 2 no longer exists, but the paper Jim cited contains the videos and much analysis.
"Quiescent Prominence Dynamics Observed with the Hinode Solar Optical Telescope. II. Prominence Bubble Boundary Layer Characteristics and the Onset of a Coupled Kelvin–Helmholtz Rayleigh–Taylor Instability"
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3 ... a95b6bib63
Scroll to "2. Prominence Bubble Expansion and Boundary Layer Characteristics".
There you'll find a video from 2007 spanning 16:00 UT to almost 21:00 UT.
Mesmerizing.
In the right hands that double limb is spectacular.
I've been brainwashed into thinking it's a bad thing!
Cheers,
Ed
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Late to the solar party - April 2023. Missed 5 cycles. Much to learn. Much to spend.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
This is a nice article. I'll certainly read it in its entirety when I get a chance.
Lunt 8x32 SUNoculars
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Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces
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Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
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Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Some recent results on a very small quiescent prominence on the north polar limb.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
I missed your post earlier. This is fantastic. Do you recall where on the limb this was located?
Bravo! Bravo!
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
That was the SE limb, I believe. As it does not look like I rotated it I’m pretty sure it is presented how I imaged it and I orient my camera for captures based on GONG images.oriolestation wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:22 pmI missed your post earlier. This is fantastic. Do you recall where on the limb this was located?
Bravo! Bravo!
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Amazing how quickly the bubble void on the northern end of the prom breaks up and down flows. Excellent.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
A very small quiescent prominence on the polar south east limb. Dark bubble voids at the base of the prominence have been disrupted and partially deflated. A number of dark plumes are visible rising up from the prominence base.
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Re: Quiescent Prominence Bubbles and Dark Plumes
Very nice resolution on such small proms! Solar dynamics in action.
Lunt 8x32 SUNoculars
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Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
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Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
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" Way more fun to see it! "
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
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Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
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