Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

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Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

Hi there,
i was wondering if somebody successfully found a replacement to the standard Quark 12mm Blockfilter/ITF etc. that would give more light throughput?
What needs to be considered here?

Regards
Dennis
Last edited by Dennis on Wed Apr 12, 2023 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by rsfoto »

Dennis wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:23 pm Hi there,
i was wondering if somebody successfully found a replacement to the standard Quark 6mm Blockfilter/ITF etc. that would give more light throughput?
What needs to be considered here?

Regards
Dennis
Hi Dennis,

I do not know if it gives more light but since years, after my ITF was rusted again, I just put a 12nm H-alpha filter in place. As far as I know this is not recommended for visual but photographically it works trouble free.

Maybe take out the ITF, make the hole bigger and get a 1.25" H-alpha filter from ¿Astronomik? or any other reliable brand ... Gerd Neuman has excellent service ...


regards Rainer

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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

rsfoto wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 4:42 pm
Dennis wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:23 pm Hi there,
i was wondering if somebody successfully found a replacement to the standard Quark 6mm Blockfilter/ITF etc. that would give more light throughput?
What needs to be considered here?

Regards
Dennis
Hi Dennis,

I do not know if it gives more light but since years, after my ITF was rusted again, I just put a 12nm H-alpha filter in place. As far as I know this is not recommended for visual but photographically it works trouble free.

Maybe take out the ITF, make the hole bigger and get a 1.25" H-alpha filter from ¿Astronomik? or any other reliable brand ... Gerd Neuman has excellent service ...

Hi Rainer,

thanks, thats exactly the direction i was thinking. And yes, for photographic use only. Energy rejection should be fine with a narrow Baader h-alpha filter placed with a distancer ahead as you said, but i was wondering if this works and shows details on the solar disk like usual. I will try it out, thank you for the tip.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Dennis,

Details ?

Look at my images ... There is no ITF but a 12nm Astronomik filter in front of my BF30 ...


regards Rainer

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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

rsfoto wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 5:29 pm Hi Dennis,

Details ?

Look at my images ... There is no ITF but a 12nm Astronomik filter in front of my BF30 ...

..sounds great, but you didnt notice any changes with lightthroughput? What do you mean with BF30? I think i know.. you are not talking about a Quark filter, but about a Coronado that you use. I want to replace the blockfilter too, because it eats a lot of light. That might be more difficult to do.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Dennis,

I used to have a Quark but send all back as I did not get anything out of it.

If I am not mistaken the Quark holes are very tiny. You mentioned something about 12mm and I guess that is what is eating light ... I do not know the focal length you are using your Quark but just make a calculation focal length / 12mm and you get the f/XX and that tells you how much exposure time you need.

Also a Quark is a complete unit containing all. How do you want to change something in the blocking filter ?

A BF30 is a 30mm aperture blocking filter.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

Hi Rainer,
thats right, either a larger blockfilter or a substitution that has a higher transmission. I think both is out of reach for the standard Quark since nobody actually did it. Since there is a 4.2 x telecentric right after the 12mm bf im not even sure if a larger bf would bring more light in.

"Also a Quark is a complete unit containing all. How do you want to change something in the blocking filter ?"

You can take away the bf relatively easy, but it contains also the itf or other parts which im not sure of. So this whole unit would need replacement.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by pawlik »

Changing BF in Quark for bigger version make no sense just becouse built -in telecentric lens has less than 10mm diameter. Also, you can`t use any other typical filter as a replacement of a orignal BF. It will not work.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

pawlik wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:44 pm Changing BF in Quark for bigger version make no sense just becouse built -in telecentric lens has less than 10mm diameter. Also, you can`t use any other typical filter as a replacement of a orignal BF. It will not work.
Thats what i thought. Thanks.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by marktownley »

Dennis wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:51 pm
pawlik wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:44 pm Changing BF in Quark for bigger version make no sense just becouse built -in telecentric lens has less than 10mm diameter. Also, you can`t use any other typical filter as a replacement of a orignal BF. It will not work.
Thats what i thought. Thanks.
It does make sense if you mount it higher in the light cone as it will spread thermal load more.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by pawlik »

marktownley wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:37 am
Dennis wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:51 pm
pawlik wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:44 pm Changing BF in Quark for bigger version make no sense just becouse built -in telecentric lens has less than 10mm diameter. Also, you can`t use any other typical filter as a replacement of a orignal BF. It will not work.
Thats what i thought. Thanks.
It does make sense if you mount it higher in the light cone as it will spread thermal load more.
Yes, that`s why i chose larger version of BF when I had to replaced it.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by marktownley »

Same here!


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

The advantages of using a Quark Combo are that the telecentric goes before it so spreads the light out more over the 20mm filter. With my 90mm F6.7 and a 3x VK and a 2x ES the input to the 3x VK just fits the first lens aperture, and the output from the 2x ES is over 20mm (40mm) and fully illuminates the output lens.

Also Pupak says the blockers work better in a telecentric beam like the etalon does.

See my recent ERF safety thread in the Mods section for BBE (Looking up at the Suns image) temperatures measured out of the back of the diagonal, 3x VK and 2xES on a 90mm F6.7. An extra Red 25a in the front of the combo body was at 22C.

Also with a blocker the only light coming out of the back of the etalon is one fingers worth of the etalons output cone.
You HAVE to use the right sort of blocker for your etalon.

The narrower the deep sky h-alpha is the lower the peak output is. So I am using a StL Optolong? 40nm red after a UV-IR and before a KG3. for full spectrum blocking. The 40nm red looks a bit like my Lunt red IR blocked ERF. For most light use a Red CCD 100nm filter possibly. I will visually test the difference.

After a while in the sun measure the temperature of the blocker filters front. 40C or less should be OK. A Quark runs at about 40C anyway.

Peter Drew has used a 6" PST mod visually for years without any extra ERF.

Rogerio Marcon uses a 8" Zeiss for imaging with just a chunk of alloy with a small hole in it.

Searching for melted PST Mod or Quark shows no returns.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by mdwmark »

WAIT WAIT!!!!!
AM I reading this right.
You want to remove the 12.5mm filter that is in front of the telecentric?
That filter is the blocker that blocks the etalon so you only have one peak coming through. It also blocks all the light you don't want from 300nm to the far IR. You can get a replacement from Andover. The part # should be 656FS02-12.5. It is a 1nm two cavity at 656.3nm wavelength. It is in there standard bandpass filters section. You can't replace it with an 12nm filter and expect it to work.
They may even have them under there surplus catalog
There design putting that standard blocker does shorten the life of the blocker. Because of the amount of heat it is getting. But is cost less then using a 25mm one with the filter stack.
Mark W.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi Mark,

RS Photo made a post which was ambiguous, and I think was really about using a 12nm as an ERF. Which Dennis I think took as about the Quark blocker.

You say the Quark blocker goes to the far IR so does it mean that I do not need a KG3 in my internal ERF stack?
I have asked about the filter several times on here but no one seems to know. And no full bandwidth chart I have seen.

I have the 4.2x and Combo versions both Second hand. The latter without the off-axis adapter.

I assume that limiting the temperature of the blocker filter to 40C with pre-filters will prolong its life.

I am using the Combo at F40 for visual. Someone said at F35 and over you do not need an ERF, I presume because the large image scale keeps the energy intensity down, possible a comment about imaging which most people appear to do.

Thanks. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Raniers comment is in this thread. And should certainly not be taken as something to do for visual use.
And he still has the rusted blocking filter in the Quark?

Will not letting 12 combs out of the etalon decrease contrast even though its brighter?

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

" There is no ITF but a 12nm Astronomik filter in front of my BF30 .'

Seems confusion about names for Etalon Comb trim / blocking filters possibly. Across different manufacturers.

And this is about non-quark set up where he is using a Coronado BF30. And the 12nm as an ERF infront of the BF30.
He sent a Quark back or gave up on it.

There should be a sticky post about safety with a section for each vendors set ups using a cross-reference to a standard term for each component.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

Thank you guys, as far as i understood in mid April there is no other blocker alternative to the Andover replacement part.
Also i read out of the posts that there has been no transmission improvement of this blocker since the release of the Quark filters.

Questiones have been answered, thx.
Dennis


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by christian viladrich »

AndiesHandyHandies wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 9:51 am Hi Mark,

You say the Quark blocker goes to the far IR so does it mean that I do not need a KG3 in my internal ERF stack?
I have asked about the filter several times on here but no one seems to know. And no full bandwidth chart I have seen.

Thanks. Andrew.
Hello Andrew,
If you go to this page :
https://www.andovercorp.com/products/ba ... 600-699nm/

You can check the characterics of the blocker used in Quark filters (check reference number given by Mark W):
Blocking : 1x10-4 avg. X-Ray to FIR

Andover sent me the transmission profile around Ha (red curve) :
http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/in ... spaced.jpg

The characteristics given by Andover are very reliable. All Andover filters I measured are exactly as measured with Andover spectro. No bad surprise there.

You can find a better blocking filter at Alluxa (ref Alluxa 656.3-1_OD4_7018) : 3-cavity filter instead of 2-cavity, > 80% peak transmission instead of 45%, hard coated instead of soft coated. But of course it comes to a cost. There is no free lunch.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

christian viladrich wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 3:36 pm
AndiesHandyHandies wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 9:51 am Hi Mark,

You say the Quark blocker goes to the far IR so does it mean that I do not need a KG3 in my internal ERF stack?
I have asked about the filter several times on here but no one seems to know. And no full bandwidth chart I have seen.

Thanks. Andrew.
Hello Andrew,
If you go to this page :
https://www.andovercorp.com/products/ba ... 600-699nm/

You can check the characterics of the blocker used in Quark filters (check reference number given by Mark W):
Blocking : 1x10-4 avg. X-Ray to FIR

Andover sent me the transmission profile around Ha (red curve) :
http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/in ... spaced.jpg

The characteristics given by Andover are very reliable. All Andover filters I measured are exactly as measured with Andover spectro. No bad surprise there.

You can find a better blocking filter at Alluxa (ref Alluxa 656.3-1_OD4_7018) : 3-cavity filter instead of 2-cavity, > 80% peak transmission instead of 45%, hard coated instead of soft coated. But of course it comes to a cost. There is no free lunch.
Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

I had a hard time on their site due to my many blocking apps.
Thanks for sharing the curve.

So I can remove the KG3 from my Quark set up internal ERF stack safely for visual use?

Is there a temperature on the blocking filter you should stay under to prolong its life? I have assumed 40C would be OK as the etalon is heated to about 40C.

So Dennis can get a brighter image at as you say a cost.

On my 90mm F6.7 working at F40 at the Combo Quark entrance is an ERF needed in terms of eye safety when observing for a session? I understand that may reduce the blocker life. I have tried a UV-IR, then that and a 40nm red and then the KG3 as well and visually no brightness difference.

Would a 100mm or 40mm red dichoric filter give safety blocking filter wise, give decent h-alpha brightness, and have a cool enough beam when no diagonal in for occasional flashes in the eye?

Player One I see do sell essentially a RED rgb filter as an ERF at 1.25". Interms of flatness are the Baader CCD rgb filters, or similar, the best?

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by marktownley »

christian viladrich wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 3:36 pm You can find a better blocking filter at Alluxa (ref Alluxa 656.3-1_OD4_7018) : 3-cavity filter instead of 2-cavity, > 80% peak transmission instead of 45%, hard coated instead of soft coated. But of course it comes to a cost. There is no free lunch.
That's a nice filter Christian, and would work very well too. But, like you say, no free lunch!


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

marktownley wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 6:57 am
christian viladrich wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 3:36 pm You can find a better blocking filter at Alluxa (ref Alluxa 656.3-1_OD4_7018) : 3-cavity filter instead of 2-cavity, > 80% peak transmission instead of 45%, hard coated instead of soft coated. But of course it comes to a cost. There is no free lunch.
That's a nice filter Christian, and would work very well too. But, like you say, no free lunch!

Yes.. that transmission curve is a beauty. A good bf for creating a ds setup.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by mdwmark »

Hi again,
There are somethings I would like to clear up on this discussion.
OK ,on the original Quark they used a standard 12.5 diameter, 1nm , 656.3nm from Andover. This filter the bandpass and the ITF/RG630 are cemented together and mounted in a ring. This should be a stocked part for them. There would be no reason to add an KG5 with this, the only thing it will do is drop the brightness of the system because it only transmits 60% at Ha. It would be like adding another ITF( they transmit 60% ). If they want to call the front blocker an ERF also that fine. But you can't just replace it with something much broader and not blocked to the far IR.

Christian is right about the Alluxa filter. But it is only blocked to 1200nm. This would need a KG5 filter somewhere before the eyepiece to block the IR light. So you will loose some more light but, this still has better transmission then the standard design. But then there the cost, you can replace the standard filter more then once for what the hard coated cost. In the pass a standard blocker had a 1 year warranty from the manufacturer. This was a standard regardless which company made it. I see that now Andover has increased there warranty to 5 years. This is a easy fix something you can do yourself. I have no idea what Daystar warrant the Quark blocker for, so I can't say they will replace it .
There was also something that the filter runs at 40C. This would not be what the front mounted blocker of an Quark would be at. I attached an white paper about that..
My concern is that people under estimate what will work and what will not work when it comes to the blocking needed for a solar Ha filter.
Mark W.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by marktownley »

Sage information as always, thanks Mark


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

4.2X fronted Quark.
The 12.5mm blocker on the front is seperated from the Quark body. So we need to control the temprature with pre-ERF. And in warmer climates would need active cooling to keep it down to 20C?

Combo Quark.
The 21mm blocker is mounted directly on the Quark front, so I assumed a 40C limit as that is what my Quark etalon is heated to. But we still need to control extra heating with a pre-ERF if measurements of the blocker temperature in normal use goes over 20C.

Thanks for the paper on temperature sensitivity of the Quark etalon passband.


Now my question about the Quark bandwidth has been answered then we do not need a KG3/5 after the Quark, as the Quark blocker has protection into the far IR. For visual and imaging.

So you are saying the Quark does not need pre-blocking over 1200nm as the blocker will reflect that?

Also its often stated internal dielectric ERFs should go far up into the OTA. Minor point is that the reflected hot-spot is well out of the scope. For family or public use and extended guard should be used to stop access, 1" gavanised square mesh?

To benefit from the Quantum fruity-loopery of the workings of a dielectric filter it should not go up the tube further than it would allow the whole beam not to fall on the filter glass (es). Check by moving the image from side to side the maximum you use the image plane. In that case as I have shown the internal components are not much above ambient.

Thanks Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

In my ERF tests with a full 3 pack ERF and a 7nm on a 23C in the shade day the 12.5mm blocker front was 21C. Last summers shade was 14C hotter than that in the UK. Just 2C below standard blocking filter reference temperature of 23C.

The Combo was warmer without a 7nm. It was a few degrees warmer without a KG3 in the ERF stack. Full ERF 27.3C and with no KG3 33.6C. So should I use a 7nm on the Combo?

Been looking at the blocker specifications.

Andover recomend a max of 70C on the filters with a max change of 5C per minute to prevent thermal shock.

I will measure blocking filter teperatures with just a UV-IR as ERF on my 90mm.

The standard operating temperature for the specification is 23C. Maybe Daystar buy customised filters as this can be specified.
Increasing the temperature increases the bandpass as Mark said.
Tilting reduces the bandpass.
The Quark blockers are not tiltable so the only option is to cool, or heat where below 23C, the blocker filter to keep it on the specified centre of the bandwidth.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

I am continuing ERF testing and effects on the blocking filter temperature on my ERF safety testing thread.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

One thing i still dont understand about the Quark Chromosphere:
It is safe to use visual, but what is actually reducing the lighttransmission to safe levels? The Andover blockfilter has a transmission of 45% and the Etalon probably in a similar range.. so what else is reducing the light to safe levels?


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by FRAZ »

Just my tuppenceworth here on the use of a bf30 which made an appearance earlier in this thread.

In the later versions of this filter, like the one I have. When I used it the image was much darker and it reduced the speed of capture by as much as four or fivefold.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Lost a reply.

What I have gleaned.

The safety all comes down to picking out a sliver of the light on offer.

1.

Any ERF only reduces the heat load on the Quark, if done properly internal ones are cheaper and just as effective than a front ERF.
You should put the first dielectric filter near the diagonal so the Suns light only falls on the filter glass even when off axis to observe or image prominences. Advice to put the filters as far up the tube as possible is wrong.

Remember only so many filters go in the coating chamber for each sequence of coatings needed so less coatings on large filters and so a wider bandwidth.

The Quark blocker is just a DERF reducing the bandpass to 10nm and blocking long UV and IR.

2.

The etalon allows a frequency through by constructive inteference where an exact no of waves fit in the gap.

So there is a comb of individual images, but the off-axsis ones are dimmer and less sharply on band as you go more off axis.

And there is leakage of other colours as you go more off axis and they start to constructively intefere but less efficiently.

The central orthogonal one is brightest.

3. A trim filter picks out the one central peak which is on band.

4. A red filter blocks the out of band leakage.

5.

Peter Drew uses a 6" PST Mod2 with no ERF for observing as any heating does not distort or melt the etalon.

Professional telescopes use no ERF, Hironde uses a perforated 45Deg flat to reflect out of image energy into space.
The first filter in the chain is a normal UV-IR blocking filter.

Big earth based ones use special internal liquid cooling of the optics and mounts.


6. The Quark blocking filter is already above the h-alpha at its specified temperature and needs cooling to get down to its specified temperature and as on band as possible.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

Thanks for the input Andrew.
At the moment im wondering if i can remove the red itf from the quark blocker, since im not using it visually and also have the front d-erf which blocks ir until 1300nm.. you think that can work?


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

I would not remove bits of the Quark assembly for your own safety.

But if you removed the red filter the off band light coming through would swamp the CCD and reduce contrast, A lot I would think.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

AndiesHandyHandies wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 2:36 pm Hi

I would not remove bits of the Quark assembly for your own safety.

But if you removed the red filter the off band light coming through would swamp the CCD and reduce contrast, A lot I would think.

Cheers. Andrew.

Hm.. i think i will be safe if only for imaging. But will the Andover blockfilter not block all out of band light? I understand that the ITF is only for visual safety.

This is still one big question im still looking the answer for.. is the ITF IR blocking needed for imaging?


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

How do you know there is a ITF in the Quark?

And is there a 'Trim' filter to pick out the central comb?

Do you have a diagram with each filters specification?

ITFs are a silver layer protected by coatings to provide far IR blocking.
Another solution is KG3 glass.

The front 'blocker' on the quark blocks UV and IR to OD5, but that may be limited to near the H-alpha as its is for other filters.

It is too wide to be a trim filter to pick out the one on axis central comb out of the Quark etalon. It looks like.

I use a UV-IR, Red CCD, and Baader 7nm in my internal DERF at the moment on the Quark. Gradually reflects back energy outside of H-alpha region.
The 7nm does not block long IR as far out as the 35nm, but the 35nm seems poor optically for solar for some reason.

With the Quark front blocker you do not need extra far UV or IR blocking. Mark Thias says using a KG3 as well would just dim the image.

Mark Townley says far IR affects his CCD images. I tried a KG3 on the original PST and I felt it was a bit better visually.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

AndiesHandyHandies wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 10:08 pm Hi

How do you know there is a ITF in the Quark?

And is there a 'Trim' filter to pick out the central comb?

Do you have a diagram with each filters specification?

ITFs are a silver layer protected by coatings to provide far IR blocking.
Another solution is KG3 glass.

The front 'blocker' on the quark blocks UV and IR to OD5, but that may be limited to near the H-alpha as its is for other filters.

It is too wide to be a trim filter to pick out the one on axis central comb out of the Quark etalon. It looks like.

I use a UV-IR, Red CCD, and Baader 7nm in my internal DERF at the moment on the Quark. Gradually reflects back energy outside of H-alpha region.
The 7nm does not block long IR as far out as the 35nm, but the 35nm seems poor optically for solar for some reason.

With the Quark front blocker you do not need extra far UV or IR blocking. Mark Thias says using a KG3 as well would just dim the image.

Mark Townley says far IR affects his CCD images. I tried a KG3 on the original PST and I felt it was a bit better visually.

Cheers. Andrew.

Hi Andrew,
i just took the blockfilter out of the Quark and had a quick look. It is in fact not a single filter but a filter sandwich. The ITF is on the back (red glass filter) and on the front there is the visible silver filter. So i assume the silver one is the blockfilter and the red one on the back is the IR blocker. I didnt feel much like taking this apart since i plan to replace the whole unit with something better.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by pupak »

I think it's the other way around. The silver one is ERF and the red one is blocking. They can be separated from each other, but it is difficult and requires good tools and skillful hands. I was separating the 25mm from the Combo because the DERF was causing flare and the TZ3. That case is hard aluminum. It can be dissected with a scalpel and then carefully separated, They are connected only by a film on the surface. Removing the ERF made the glare disappear and the blocker works. It must be taken into account that it must not be subject to excessive thermal stress.
If you were selling the blocker, I would be interested. I fried one here and would like to replace it.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

pupak wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:39 pm I think it's the other way around. The silver one is ERF and the red one is blocking. They can be separated from each other, but it is difficult and requires good tools and skillful hands. I was separating the 25mm from the Combo because the DERF was causing flare and the TZ3. That case is hard aluminum. It can be dissected with a scalpel and then carefully separated, They are connected only by a film on the surface. Removing the ERF made the glare disappear and the blocker works. It must be taken into account that it must not be subject to excessive thermal stress.
If you were selling the blocker, I would be interested. I fried one here and would like to replace it.

Thanks for sharing your experience Petr. Yes, would make sense if the ERF is first and afterwards the blocker.
About the Blocker i sent you a PM, i hope my replacement will be sucessful.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Looking back a Marks post on my Quark etalon safety threads he says the blocker is the ( 10nm is )1nm Andover filter and then a Combination of a silver ITF I presume for long IR and a Red filter I presume for Etalon leakage at other wavelengths. There may be other components.

Yesterday I had the 90mm F6.7 out with Qark Combo Chromo and DS PST Etalon.

I have added a Baader 7nm to the diagonal. So less heat load on the 1nm Andover blocker.

Observing with barlow and etalons stack in the Sun the blocker was at 25.8C, 2.8C above its specification temperature.

I added about an inch worth of 1.25" extensions to the front of the Quark so that the nosepiece with the blocker in was in free air.
I Put two layers of white linen cloth over the stack with free space under.

The Blocker measured at 21.7C 1.3C under its spec temp.

I am going to use some aluminium gun black on the Quark nose piece and try again. Hopefully be cooler as more heat radiating away.

Cheers. Andrew.
Last edited by AndiesHandyHandies on Sat Sep 16, 2023 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

AndiesHandyHandies wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 8:35 pm Hi

Looking back a Marks post on my Quark etalon safety threads he says the blocker is the 10nm Andover and then a Combination of a silver ITF I presume for long IR and a Red filter I presume for Etalon leakage at other wavelengths. There may be other components.

Yesterday I had the 90mm F6.7 out with Qark Combo Chromo and DS PST Etalon.

I have added a Baader 7nm to the diagonal. So less heat load on the 10nm Andover blocker.

Observing with barlow and etalons stack in the Sun the blocker was at 25.8C, 2.8C above its specification temperature.

I added about an inch worth of 1.25" extensions to the front of the Quark so that the nosepiece with the blocker in was in free air.
I Put two layers of white linen cloth over the stack with free space under.

The Blocker measured at 21.7C 1.3C under its spec temp.

I am going to use some aluminium gun black on the Quark nose piece and try again. Hopefully be cooler as more heat radiating away.

Cheers. Andrew.

Thanks Andrew,
yes it is a filter stack with different filters with lower transmission.

My silver Quark ITF is getting around 40°C after a longer imaging session and the triband front d-erf and no problems what so ever. Same goes for the antlia 393nm filter in ca-k mode. Measured with the infrared meat thermometer.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Sorry I meant the 1nm above for my Combo Quark.

Andover
656FS02-25
656.3nm Bandpass Filter, HBW 1nm, 25mm dia.

file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/The%20effects%20of%20temperature%20on%20a%20standard%20blocker%20A1-3.pdf

At 40C the passband of the Quark 1nm blocker has gone up by 0.18A x 20(C) = 3.6A.
So transmission at H-Alpha is very low.

http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/in ... spaced.jpg

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

AndiesHandyHandies wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 10:10 pm Hi

Sorry I meant the 1nm above for my Combo Quark.

Andover
656FS02-25
656.3nm Bandpass Filter, HBW 1nm, 25mm dia.

file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/The%20effects%20of%20temperature%20on%20a%20standard%20blocker%20A1-3.pdf

At 40C the passband of the Quark 1nm blocker has gone up by 0.18A x 20(C) = 3.6A.
So transmission at H-Alpha is very low.

http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/in ... spaced.jpg

Cheers. Andrew.

Hi Andrew,
the 1nm blocker in the Quark filter stack will not get the 40°C because the silver ITF will keep the heat away from it i suppose.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

I thought the ITF and red glass combination went after the Andover silver filter?

Also Daystar can order a batch of filters to be on band at a specified temperature. Do they do that?

When people buy individual filters are Andover allowed to supply them set to the same temperature as Daystar ordered ones?

We need someone to test a few Quarks 4.2x and Combo to see at what temperature the blocking filter is on band.

Need someone with a spectrum analyser to compare a standard Quark blocker with a user ordered replacement.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

AndiesHandyHandies wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:25 am Hi

I thought the ITF and red glass combination went after the Andover silver filter?

Also Daystar can order a batch of filters to be on band at a specified temperature. Do they do that?

When people buy individual filters are Andover allowed to supply them set to the same temperature as Daystar ordered ones?

We need someone to test a few Quarks 4.2x and Combo to see at what temperature the blocking filter is on band.

Need someone with a spectrum analyser to compare a standard Quark blocker with a user ordered replacement.

Cheers. Andrew.

Tbh i dont know exactly, but would make sense to have the blocker after the silver filter.
Most Quark users will get "heat" on the silver element, with or without d-erf. So i assume that either the blockfilter is relatively robust for tempereture changes or it doesnt get the heat. Otherwise there would be much more awareness about it and complaints or? This doesnt seem to be a popular issue.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Sorry for confusion.

The front Andover filter just looks 'silver' because it reflects most of the white light on it when you look directly at it.

The ITF is actually a layer of silver metal coated with protective layers. For long IR blocking.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi Dennis,

download/file.php?id=53670

This Andover curve was taken at 23C.

viewtopic.php?t=31697

On CVs comparison graph you can see its peak is already higher than h-alpha by a bit.

file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/The%20effects%20of%20temperature%20on%20a%20standard%20blocker%20A1-3.pdf

Running the Blocker filter at 40C increases the central wavelength by 0.18A x 17 = 3.06A.

Which looking at CVs comparison drops the transmission to about 25%, 1.5 squares over to right.

So you need to temperature control the Quark Blocker.

I used Baader DERF equivalent internal filters and an additional Baader 7nm on the diagonal and insulated the tele-centric and filter stack and exposed the blocker holder to free air under the insulation to get to 21.5C.

In hot countries you would need to actively cool the blocker.

I will go through Daystars woolly recomendations for 'ERF's to see what the blocker temperature is for me in England.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

In old posts people were removing the Quark blocker Andover filter, including ITF and red glass?, to get more light through when imaging. Not to be used for visual if no ITF and red glass.

Removed this reference as not checked out, and the blocking filter should not be removed. Adding a 7nm would be OK BUT not replacing the blocking filter.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

AndiesHandyHandies wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2023 8:59 pm Hi

In old posts people were removing the Quark blocker Andover filter, including ITF and red glass?, to get more light through when imaging. Not to be used for visual if no ITF and red glass.

Removed this reference as not checked out, and the blocking filter should not be removed. Adding a 7nm would be OK BUT not replacing the blocking filter.

Cheers. Andrew.

I already replaced the blocking filter and all that was in the andover unit (ITF etc.). Using now the mentioned Alluxa 1nm filter as replacement, of course only for imaging. So far it works fine and gives at least 100% more light (will do more measurements). I will experiment with adding a Baader 20nm h-alpha filter in front to keep the Alluxa cool. You are right, these 1nm blockers need to stay cool for to not have the cwl drift too much.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Good you can afford the Alluxa.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Any etalon or dielectric filter will drift to longer on-band wavelength if heated. And vice-versa.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Quark Chromosphere Blockfilter Mod

Post by Dennis »

AndiesHandyHandies wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:44 pm Hi

Any etalon or dielectric filter will drift to longer on-band wavelength if heated. And vice-versa.

Cheers. Andrew.
Thats true, but especially if its as narrow as 1nm i better want to make sure its not getting too warm. Testing out more on the upcoming days and will see more how it behaves.


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