Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

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rsfoto
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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

Dennis wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:11 pm
rsfoto wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 3:28 pm
Dennis wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 9:06 am

I would second this, what needs to be cool is the chip. The question is where is the temperature sensor located. On the chip? If so, then it seems you can get some degrees temp reduction compared to not actively cooling.
Hi Dennis,

Be aware of one thing and that is the humidity in the air.

Cooling directly the chip always implies a danger of condensation and freezing of the chip. Cooling the air around the chip will not achieve the same cooling as a direct cooling but it will cool the chip without danger of condensation or freezing the chip.

Now we have to differentiate why we cool our DSO cameras and why we cool out Sun imaging cameras.

We cool our DSO cameras in order to bring down noise due to long exposure times eg. 5, 10 or even more minutes.

We cool our Sun imaging cameras in order to increase the life of the electronic components. With exposure times of 50 milliseconds (these are my max exposure times) or less we have no noise in the images.

The noise we have or allegedly see, is because we introduce it ourselves with the famous Wavelet sharpening trying to get very sharp details or we crank up the gain just in order to get very short exposures (I always leave gain at 0 and bite the bullet with exposures times of about 45 - 50ms)... but we forget that the details we want to image are by far more affected by hot air turbulence be it in the sky or in our telescopes ...

About exposure times very few people ever made a series of tests in order to see when an exposure time is to high and prefer to crank up GAIN.

Einstein said: " If you do what others say, you will never know what you are really doing" (FAKE quote, I just invented it. Einstein never said that :lol: )

IMHO

Hi Rainer,

a good quote, i like it.
About condensation: that sure is a thing with the peltier coolers on the deep sky cameras in night time conditions.
But in warm weather in daytime with a air blower cooling?
On my cpu in the pc i also put a strong air cooler, never had condensation though. The rel. air humidity is not high enough under these conditions.
Hi Dennis,

You can not compare a strong air cooling and placing a TEC directly on the back of a imaging chip or even let me say a TEC directly onto a Processor and having it enclosed in a casing with a lot of holes ... like a PC casing. Look at Martin_S's posting where he showed an image of the TEC and Fan doing a dry run. He got a lot of ice on the parts ... Martin_S lives in Australia

The higher the temperature the higher the amount of water in the air but you already know that. You can not compare the comfortable temperatures of Germany with our temperatures in Mexico or Australia. At the moment I am writing this we have here at my place 31°C and the forecast for Thursday is 34°C ... 50% of the las 3 weeks we have had days with more then 32°C.

https://www.fstweb.de/de/wissen-tools/d ... cktabelle/

IMHO


regards Rainer

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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

On my cpu in the pc i also put a strong air cooler, never had condensation though. The rel. air humidity is not high enough under these conditions.
Hi Dennis,

That is correct because with just a fan you will never reach the so called Dew Point temperature (unless the ambient temperature reaches the dew point temperature) but with a TEC it reaches the Dew Point nearly instantly ...

The temperature of your heat sink (without TEC) will be a bit lower then the ambient temperature because the water content in the air helps to cool it down a bit ... that is what we call "Feels Like" which is an effect of wind and humidity ... a sweating person will feel cooler then a non sweating person...


regards Rainer

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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by Dennis »

rsfoto wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:49 pm
On my cpu in the pc i also put a strong air cooler, never had condensation though. The rel. air humidity is not high enough under these conditions.
Hi Dennis,

That is correct because with just a fan you will never reach the so called Dew Point temperature (unless the ambient temperature reaches the dew point temperature) but with a TEC it reaches the Dew Point nearly instantly ...

The temperature of your heat sink (without TEC) will be a bit lower then the ambient temperature because the water content in the air helps to cool it down a bit ... that is what we call "Feels Like" which is an effect of wind and humidity ... a sweating person will feel cooler then a non sweating person...

Rainer I was writing about non TEC cooling, so just air cooling : )
Of course i agree that condensation is an issue with TEC cooling.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by arnedanielsen »

I've been using this one on my ASI 174mm camera for a while now:
https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Black-Sha ... TLDB7?th=1

No fancy light or app control, but very simple to use. Just attach the self adhesive magnetic cooler ring to the back of the camera and you can easily attach/detach the magnetic cooling fan.
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Best regards,
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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Arne,

Interesting but what are your highest temperatures in Norway.

Martin_S gets very high temperature ambients in Australia and I get nowadays about 34°C when imaging (there have been too many clouds here lately).

So I would say having a temperature sensor, I assume it is on the imging chip because anywhere else would be nonsense.

We easily reach camera temperatures of more then 50°C.

In order to get a good idea of different situation it is always best to mention the achieved temperatures.

regards Rainer


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by arnedanielsen »

rsfoto wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 4:52 pm Hi Arne,

Interesting but what are your highest temperatures in Norway.

Martin_S gets very high temperature ambients in Australia and I get nowadays about 34°C when imaging (there have been too many clouds here lately).

So I would say having a temperature sensor, I assume it is on the imging chip because anywhere else would be nonsense.

We easily reach camera temperatures of more then 50°C.

In order tog et a good idea of differente situation it is always best to mention the achieved temperatures.

regards Rainer
Hi Rainer,

Typical summer temperatures (when the Sun is out) where I live is 20-25 degrees Celsius. On the warmest days it can get a little over 30, but that's usually only a few days.


To give an indication of the cooling effect of the 174mm camera I did a test today. The ambient temperature was around 20C. After running the camera for a while the camera temperature stabilized at 43.7C. I then turned on the cooler while continuing using the camera. After 30min it had dropped to 36.2C. Thus, using the cooler seems be able to reduce the temperature with 6-7C for my typical usage.
CoolerOff.png
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CoolerOn.png
CoolerOn.png (16.79 KiB) Viewed 291 times

Best regards,
Arne


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Arne,

Thank you, That were also the results of another member here using a phone cooler.

My cooler achieves an average of delta 15°C but OK, not everybody has a 3D printer at home or wants to tinker like I like to do. The cost of my cooler is more or less the same but has the disadvantage that you would buy 4 or 5 heat sinks, maybe 2 temperature controllers and 5 fans and so you could build a few more coolers ... ;)

What I have noticed is that if the ambient temperature goes down the cooling gets more and more effective which is logical as the ambient temperature blown at the heat sink is what gives us here a better cooling. Most the times I am able to reach ambient temperature on the camera.

In your case having an ambient temperature of let me say 20°C and my cooler I even dare to say that the camera would cool down under ambient temperature using my cooler or Martin_S cooler.


regards Rainer

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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by pedro »

Thanks Arne. The Black Shark Magnetic Cooler is a good option


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by OlegLviv »

Black Shark Magnetic nice choice!


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by pedro »

I plan to use this cooler with my new Player One Saturn-M SQR
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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by OlegLviv »

pedro wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:11 pm I plan to use this cooler with my new Player One Saturn-M SQR
The Black Shark Magnetic Cooler?


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by arnedanielsen »

pedro wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:11 pm I plan to use this cooler with my new Player One Saturn-M SQR
I have this cooler on my Player One Apollo-M Max, but haven't tested the delta C.

Best regards,
Arne


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