The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
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The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Maurice from Melbourne Australia contacted me in February to ask me to send him one of my quartz SHG slits. He had already built a Solex and used it with a 70mm f/6 refractor. His plan was to build a larger instrument based on the 100mm f/9 Orion telescope. He decided to use a folded design, which is something I had once considered but realised it was beyond my construction skills. Maurice, however, is a trained machinist and has a fully equipped machine shop at home. By using two diagonals, the centre of mass stays closer to the axis of telescope and also closer to the middle of the optical tube. This improved balance can help with scanning. Here are two views of the finished instrument (I believe an electronic focuser was later attached to the telescope):
The collimator is 200mm focal length and the imaging lens is 150mm. Both are f/4 Asahi Pentax Takumars. The grating is 50mm x 50mm, 2400l/mm from Optometrics. The camera is a cooled (helpful in Australia) ASI 183MM. There is a 2-inch UV/IR filter in front of the diagonal that fits into the telescope focuser. I believe the "first light" was around May 12. I attach some images from May 14:
I will also attach some photos of the construction process, which shows some of the clever design choices and excellent machining.
The collimator is 200mm focal length and the imaging lens is 150mm. Both are f/4 Asahi Pentax Takumars. The grating is 50mm x 50mm, 2400l/mm from Optometrics. The camera is a cooled (helpful in Australia) ASI 183MM. There is a 2-inch UV/IR filter in front of the diagonal that fits into the telescope focuser. I believe the "first light" was around May 12. I attach some images from May 14:
I will also attach some photos of the construction process, which shows some of the clever design choices and excellent machining.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Maurice sometimes posts to iceinspace but says he is not an active participant in many online astronomy forums. I said I would like to show some of his work to inspire others. I attach some of his more recent images:
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Hi,
This looks absolutely great.
Using 2 diagonals needs a lot of backfocus, did he shorten the telescope tube ?
This looks absolutely great.
Using 2 diagonals needs a lot of backfocus, did he shorten the telescope tube ?
regards Rainer
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
No shortening was required. Most of the telescopes I've used for SHG need a huge number of extensions in order to focus on a slit.
A few notes on the construction. The telescope focuser supports only the weight of the two diagonals. This is much more in the range of what the focuser is designed for (rather than supporting the whole weight of the SHG optics and case). This has a lot of advantages in terms of smoothness of focusing and maintaining alignment.
The long vertical rod at the slit holder allows small rotations of the slit to get good alignment. Being able to do this while observing is helpful.
The grating is rotated with a part from the 10:1 telescope focuser, allowing very precise and repeatable choice of spectral lines.
It looks like a very hefty mount is being used for this big SHG. I'm not sure of the total weight of the instrument, but it must be quite considerable given the large metal pieces used in its construction and the use of a cooled camera (ZWO says it weighs 410g vs uncooled 120g). The 200mm f/4 Takumar lens is also quite hefty (the one I have weighs 560g; the 150mm f/4 lens weighs 330g). There is a 200mm f/5.6 Takumar that weighs less, only 405g, and which would be sufficient given the f/9 ratio of the telescope.
By the way, I see a quite large Coronado in the background of one of the construction photos.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Hi Doug,thesmiths wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:44 pmNo shortening was required. Most of the telescopes I've used for SHG need a huge number of extensions in order to focus on a slit.
A few notes on the construction. The telescope focuser supports only the weight of the two diagonals. This is much more in the range of what the focuser is designed for (rather than supporting the whole weight of the SHG optics and case). This has a lot of advantages in terms of smoothness of focusing and maintaining alignment.
The long vertical rod at the slit holder allows small rotations of the slit to get good alignment. Being able to do this while observing is helpful.
The grating is rotated with a part from the 10:1 telescope focuser, allowing very precise and repeatable choice of spectral lines.
It looks like a very hefty mount is being used for this big SHG. I'm not sure of the total weight of the instrument, but it must be quite considerable given the large metal pieces used in its construction and the use of a cooled camera (ZWO says it weighs 410g vs uncooled 120g). The 200mm f/4 Takumar lens is also quite hefty (the one I have weighs 560g; the 150mm f/4 lens weighs 330g). There is a 200mm f/5.6 Takumar that weighs less, only 405g, and which would be sufficient given the f/9 ratio of the telescope.
By the way, I see a quite large Coronado in the background of one of the construction photos.
Thanks, I have some diagonals and will test if my new little SVBONY 70mm f/6 can focus after two diagonals.
I was wondering what was the focuser but then I found out he uses it for the grating as you explained
Thanks
regards Rainer
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
I would dare to say that in this construction the focuser has no weight to carry at all as the SHG is resting on top of the telescope. Of course a very precise position is necessary but on the other side the connection of both diagonals can be made as a slide in and so the connection is nearly perfect with no load on the focuser...The telescope focuser supports only the weight of the two diagonals.
As far as I can judge it
regards Rainer
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
No, that is not how it is constructed. The two diagonals are installed into the telescope focuser. There is actually a gap between the second diagonal and the slit, which is covered by some overlapping tubes. The light here is very intense so stray light is not important. The focuser supports the weight of the two diagonals. The rest is connected to the telescope tube.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
A short refractor with 420mm focal length will have proportionately less back focus than a long refractor with 900mm focal length.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Hi Doug,
Thanks and sure. The focuser of the SVBONY 70mm f/6 has 90mm of travel. Two of my 2" diagonals put together sum up to 62+41+62mm. Just printing a tripod plate so I can put that on a tripod and test it if I come tofoces with a camera or not.
My Takahashi TOA 130 has a back focus of 250mm ...
Interesting stuff
regards Rainer
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
The idea of a folded SHG is really interesting and I have attempted over the past few days to piggyback my foam board constructed SHG to my 90mm f/10 achromat,I will post images later in a separate thread.
Alun
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Lunt CaK B12 module
SW Evostar 72ED for full disk imaging
Sol'Ex SHG
80mm f/7 achromat used with pressure tune module off the Lunt with Lunt 100mm ERF
Bresser 90 f/10 achromat used for CaK & white light imaging & PST mod with Lunt 100mm ERF
Coronado SM40 (pre Meade) and BF10 filter set + SMII 60 richview DS etalon
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Correction: Maurice just informed me that he did shorten the tube by 68mm to accommodate the two diagonals.
He guesses that the total weight is 12-15kg (he'll weigh it next time it's off the mount). It is on an EQ8, which he says carries it effortlessly.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Correction: Maurice just informed me that he did shorten the tube by 68mm to accommodate the two diagonals.
regards Rainer
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Hi,rsfoto wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:35 pmHi Doug,thesmiths wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:44 pmNo shortening was required. Most of the telescopes I've used for SHG need a huge number of extensions in order to focus on a slit.
A few notes on the construction. The telescope focuser supports only the weight of the two diagonals. This is much more in the range of what the focuser is designed for (rather than supporting the whole weight of the SHG optics and case). This has a lot of advantages in terms of smoothness of focusing and maintaining alignment.
The long vertical rod at the slit holder allows small rotations of the slit to get good alignment. Being able to do this while observing is helpful.
The grating is rotated with a part from the 10:1 telescope focuser, allowing very precise and repeatable choice of spectral lines.
It looks like a very hefty mount is being used for this big SHG. I'm not sure of the total weight of the instrument, but it must be quite considerable given the large metal pieces used in its construction and the use of a cooled camera (ZWO says it weighs 410g vs uncooled 120g). The 200mm f/4 Takumar lens is also quite hefty (the one I have weighs 560g; the 150mm f/4 lens weighs 330g). There is a 200mm f/5.6 Takumar that weighs less, only 405g, and which would be sufficient given the f/9 ratio of the telescope.
By the way, I see a quite large Coronado in the background of one of the construction photos.
Thanks, I have some diagonals and will test if my new little SVBONY 70mm f/6 can focus after two diagonals.
I was wondering what was the focuser but then I found out he uses it for the grating as you explained
Thanks
I tested the backfocus of the SVBONY 70mm f/6 focusing on some distant clouds and the camera came into focus at 135mm measured from the end of the focuser housing. See attached image red line.
The focuser has a travel of 90mm and honestly is a much better Rack&Pinion focuser compared to the one I have on my Takahashi TOA 130 1st generation.
regards Rainer
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Incredible especially the Helium D3
Alexandra
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
With regards to how the second diagonal interfaces with the SHG slit, Maurice confirms that they are not directly connected. He says:
"The second diagonal moves freely over your slit in its filter cell. It clears by a mm or so either side and gives a couple mm of travel. The outer part of the slit holder is threaded to take a 2" nose-piece which is internally flocked with black felt." See sketch below. I personally would not be worried so much about light leaks in front of the slit, but I would be concerned to keep dust off the slit.
"The second diagonal moves freely over your slit in its filter cell. It clears by a mm or so either side and gives a couple mm of travel. The outer part of the slit holder is threaded to take a 2" nose-piece which is internally flocked with black felt." See sketch below. I personally would not be worried so much about light leaks in front of the slit, but I would be concerned to keep dust off the slit.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Thanks Doug,thesmiths wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:03 pm With regards to how the second diagonal interfaces with the SHG slit, Maurice confirms that they are not directly connected. He says:
"The second diagonal moves freely over your slit in its filter cell. It clears by a mm or so either side and gives a couple mm of travel. The outer part of the slit holder is threaded to take a 2" nose-piece which is internally flocked with black felt." See sketch below. I personally would not be worried so much about light leaks in front of the slit, but I would be concerned to keep dust off the slit.
PXL_20230605_094439903.jpg
We could use an Oil Seal with a fine lip to keep dust off the mirror
Maybe even simpler by using some felt between the sliding and the fixed part
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=felt+washer& ... _sb_noss_1
regards Rainer
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
I do believe the SHG has better performance on average than even double or triple stacked etalons. The Helium D3 image looks much different than the DayStar images of the same wavelength which show more photosphere features than the above SHG image. If my understanding is right, the Helium D3 line like the Sodium D line concentrates on the photosphere transition layer between the photosphere and lower chromosphere. Prominences show clearly in the SHG helium images which surprises me and I don't see the sunspots easily in the SHG image.
http://www.daystarfilters.com/HeD3.shtml
Rainer,
Is the SvBony an ED Aochromat?
I do see a SolarMax 90 in the background!
James
http://www.daystarfilters.com/HeD3.shtml
Rainer,
Is the SvBony an ED Aochromat?
I do see a SolarMax 90 in the background!
James
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
In regards the diagonals I use two 2" models and the slit is housed in a 1.25" eyepiece projection adapter which is the attached to the spacer on the
rear of the lens,I also screwed a 2" adapter ring to the eyepiece projection tube which enters the diagonal and aids alignment between it and the SHG.
No light leak since there is only a very slight gap between the adapter ring and the throat of the diagonal and the body of the SHG is shielding as well.
First photo shows how they sit whilst in use,the second photo shows the diagonal backed off so as to show the adapter ring which sits inside the diagonal.
Alun
rear of the lens,I also screwed a 2" adapter ring to the eyepiece projection tube which enters the diagonal and aids alignment between it and the SHG.
No light leak since there is only a very slight gap between the adapter ring and the throat of the diagonal and the body of the SHG is shielding as well.
First photo shows how they sit whilst in use,the second photo shows the diagonal backed off so as to show the adapter ring which sits inside the diagonal.
Alun
Last edited by Alun_H on Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lunt 50THa solar scope
Lunt CaK B12 module
SW Evostar 72ED for full disk imaging
Sol'Ex SHG
80mm f/7 achromat used with pressure tune module off the Lunt with Lunt 100mm ERF
Bresser 90 f/10 achromat used for CaK & white light imaging & PST mod with Lunt 100mm ERF
Coronado SM40 (pre Meade) and BF10 filter set + SMII 60 richview DS etalon
Skywatcher EQ6 Pro and Ioptron CEM60
Then there is all the night kit which is far too long a list to write up here!
More images on view on my Flickr page...https://www.flickr.com/photos/alun_h/
Lunt CaK B12 module
SW Evostar 72ED for full disk imaging
Sol'Ex SHG
80mm f/7 achromat used with pressure tune module off the Lunt with Lunt 100mm ERF
Bresser 90 f/10 achromat used for CaK & white light imaging & PST mod with Lunt 100mm ERF
Coronado SM40 (pre Meade) and BF10 filter set + SMII 60 richview DS etalon
Skywatcher EQ6 Pro and Ioptron CEM60
Then there is all the night kit which is far too long a list to write up here!
More images on view on my Flickr page...https://www.flickr.com/photos/alun_h/
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Hi James,Rainer,
Is the SvBony an ED Aochromat?
Here the specs
https://www.svbony.com/sv503-70f6-ed-as ... telescope/
regards Rainer
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
rsfoto wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:41 pmHi James,Rainer,
Is the SvBony an ED Aochromat?
Here the specs
https://www.svbony.com/sv503-70f6-ed-as ... telescope/
Ah. It's an ED doublet. SvBony started out as a little off brand name. Lately their popularity seems to be increasing.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Hi Alun,Alun_H wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:35 pm In regards the diagonals I use two 2" models and the slit is housed in a 1.25" eyepiece projection adapter which is the attached to the spacer on the
rear of the lens,I also screwed a 2" adapter ring to the eyepiece projection tube which enters the diagonal and aids alignment between it and the SHG.
No light leak since there is only a very slight gap between the adapter ring and the throat of the diagonal and the body of the SHG is shielding as well.
IMG_9390.jpg
IMG_9391.jpg
Alun
That scope must have a Hell of backfocus
I ordered 2 pieces of 1.25" diagonals and hopefully I will get focus outside at the end and then onto the mirror slit. I can not shorten the SVBONY as I can not make that fine thread on the tube or I must 3D print an adapter which is quite possible. I made an adapter yesterday with a thread M88x1.0 and it did fit nicely on the sun shade for adding the UV/IR and ND filters.
regards Rainer
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Doug apologies for Highjacking this topicDeepSolar64 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:49 pmrsfoto wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:41 pmHi James,Rainer,
Is the SvBony an ED Aochromat?
Here the specs
https://www.svbony.com/sv503-70f6-ed-as ... telescope/
Ah. It's an ED doublet. SvBony started out as a little off brand name. Lately their popularity seems to be increasing.
Yes, the scope is very well made, very good finish and as I said somewhere else the R&P focuser is a beauty, better then the R&P focusers of my Takahashi. No backlash at all and very smooth running.
regards Rainer
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
rsfoto wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:52 pmDoug apologies for Highjacking this topicDeepSolar64 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:49 pmrsfoto wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:41 pm
Hi James,
Here the specs
https://www.svbony.com/sv503-70f6-ed-as ... telescope/
Ah. It's an ED doublet. SvBony started out as a little off brand name. Lately their popularity seems to be increasing.
Yes, the scope is very well made, very good finish and as I said somewhere else the R&P focuser is a beauty, better then the R&P focusers of my Takahashi. No backlash at all and very smooth running.
The focuser on my AT72EDII is the same. Very nice. Ok, back to SHGs. ;-)
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Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
In the SHG Helium method, the final image is the difference between Helium and Continuum. This means that the sun spots are minimised.DeepSolar64 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:29 pm I do believe the SHG has better performance on average than even double or triple stacked etalons. The Helium D3 image looks much different than the DayStar images of the same wavelength which show more photosphere features than the above SHG image. If my understanding is right, the Helium D3 line like the Sodium D line concentrates on the photosphere transition layer between the photosphere and lower chromosphere. Prominences show clearly in the SHG helium images which surprises me and I don't see the sunspots easily in the SHG image.
I do see a SolarMax 90 in the background!
I also thought that was a 90 -- turns out it is a double stack 60.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
The " Nado " looks bigger in the image.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Hi Rainer,
I had shortened the tube so as to work with my PST mod,plus the scope originally had a 1.25" focuser but managed to adapt a 2" job to fit
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Lunt CaK B12 module
SW Evostar 72ED for full disk imaging
Sol'Ex SHG
80mm f/7 achromat used with pressure tune module off the Lunt with Lunt 100mm ERF
Bresser 90 f/10 achromat used for CaK & white light imaging & PST mod with Lunt 100mm ERF
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Maurice wrote to tell me that he is hoping to install a stepper motor to rotate the grating to predetermined positions. He also sent a nice image, taken in the Australian winter.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Hi,
Excellent image and I am still struggling with my mount for slewing 8X or 16X
Excellent image and I am still struggling with my mount for slewing 8X or 16X
regards Rainer
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Observatorio Real de 14
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Amazing !
The D3 image is probably one of the best I've ever seen !
The D3 image is probably one of the best I've ever seen !
Christian Viladrich
Co-author of "Planetary Astronomy"
http://planetary-astronomy.com/
Editor of "Solar Astronomy"
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Co-author of "Planetary Astronomy"
http://planetary-astronomy.com/
Editor of "Solar Astronomy"
http://www.astronomiesolaire.com/
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Maurice told to me that he developed a special Photoshop process to display the Helium image. He writes:christian viladrich wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2023 9:35 am The D3 image is probably one of the best I've ever seen!
Reading some of Peter Zetner's old posts, he suggested that the 'professionals' divide the He frame by the continuum frame to obtain clear He distribution information. I did this but the result was rather duo-tone and pretty horrible.
Looking at Christian Buil's tutorial he suggested 'subtracting' the continuum image from the He frame and then stretching the result. This was better but still not great.
I then played around with some of Photoshop's layering methods (including 'difference' and 'subtract' combinations with different 'fill' levels). Results attached (my favourite result, helium D3 ps diff method2).
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
I attach a few more SHG images from Down Under.
I had a very good imaging session on Sunday morning for a couple of hours and managed some data in five different wavelengths. It is interesting to see the differences between the images. Numbers of scans used for each image is within file name.
I was surprised to pick up some prominence activity in the Na D2 data as I had not observed them there before.
The continuum image was from a 50 pixel (approx. 5 angstrom) shift towards longer wavelengths from the Ha line.
Maurice
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
It's nice to see all the different wavelengths here. Even Magnesium is included. There is a lot to be gleaned from lesser used wavelengths. Those besides Ha, continuum and CaK.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Hi,
Excellent images. Better then many others taken with etalons.
Excellent images. Better then many others taken with etalons.
regards Rainer
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Observatorio Real de 14
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Maurice sent me two new images he took today (in Melbourne, Australia) with his 100mm aperture SHG. He said there were some high clouds but at least he's got some sun (unlike many of us in the northern hemisphere). He's currently testing out the new mounting method for my chrome on quartz slits; so far, so good.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Brilliant! Not sure how I missed this thread!
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Maurice sent me a recent image (21-11-2023) taken with good seeing from Oz. This is 10 frames from 20 scans, stacked with AS!3, then treatment with Astrosurface. It looks quite perfect to me.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
That is impressive!
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Since we in the northern hemisphere have limited solar visibility (winter Solstice!), I attach a new image from Maurice taken in Australia. Taken in the morning of Christmas Eve, local time. Best 12 of 25 scans stacked in AS!3 then deconvolution with Astrosurface. Seeing was quite good, estimated at 2 to 2.5 arcsec.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Maurice knocks out some good images, Thanks for sharing Doug!
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Agreed!!
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Absolutely fabulous!
Michael in Kildare, Ireland.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Here is a rather spectacular image taken on 31 Dec 2023, showing the very bright X5 solar flare.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
wow!
Stephen W. Ramsden
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Very nice! I am glad you caught it with an SHG equipped scope.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
Here is the latest image from down under. Data collected late in the day between 17:30 and 18:00 local time on January 17.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
That is a really nice SHG image. Beautiful detail and superb contrast!!
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
See the very first sentence of the beginning of this post.
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Re: The Big SHG from Down Under -- Maurice's 100mm f/9
I think I will not be doing any further imaging myself until March. In the meantime, here are some more nice images taken from Australia on the morning (local time) of 27 January. I think the Ca-K looks particularly good.